The First Baseball Card?

benjulmag · #1 02-28-2013, 08:45 AM

The P&S Red Stockings did okay at 81k. The market for that card obviously is much deeper.

bmarlowe1 · #2 02-28-2013, 09:11 AM

It's interesting (at least to me) that SGC and PSA don't agree on who is Hammond and who is Crossley.

This person matches the guy labeled as Crossley in pencil on an NYPL Spalding collection cricket team photo (that includes Chadwick). But, there a quite a few ID errors in the NYPL Spaldlng collection, so who knows?

GaryPassamonte · #3 02-28-2013, 09:26 AM

Corey-The P & S Red Stockings card was a particularly nice example and I think the Ann St reference might have influenced some. Maybe there are some P & S back collectors out there?

Leon · #4 02-28-2013, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benjulmag

The P&S Red Stockings did okay at 81k. The market for that card obviously is much deeper.

Have always felt it is undervalued and under appreciated. I wonder how much the write up concerning it being potentially the first of the series affected the price?

oldjudge · #5 02-28-2013, 09:31 AM

The Ann St address was the sole determinant in the price going where it did. Otherwise, it is a $35,000 piece. The CdV with the ad on the back for Chadwick's 1869 book, followed by the Ann St address trade card, are the earliest Cinc images.

benjulmag · #6 02-28-2013, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

The Ann St address was the sole determinant in the price going where it did. Otherwise, it is a $35,000 piece. The CdV with the ad on the back for Chadwick's 1869 book, followed by the Ann St address trade card, are the earliest Cinc images.

How do you know that? Can you say conclusively that P&S did not operate two locations simultaneously before expanding one (Nassau Street) so as to enable them to consolidate the other one (Ann Street) within it? Absent some dispositive proof that the Nassau Street location was not in existence prior to 1870, I will continue to believe it more likely that the black baseball verso on the Red Stockings P&S denoted the first printing, the black ice skate verso the second printing and the red baseball verso the third printing. Also, it has been my observation that the black baseball verso P&S Red Stockings as a group exhibit noticeably better contrast than the red baseball versos, which is consistent with the belief they were issued earlier than the red versos. As to the contrast of the black ice skate verso Red Stockings, I recall examining only one --the one just sold by Legendary (which at one time I owned). Its contrast, while nice, does not compare to the contrast of the finest black baseball versos.

Also, with regard to price, I do not believe that its realized price would have been materially different had it had the baseball Nassau Street verso.

oldjudge · #7 02-28-2013, 11:24 PM

Corey- let us agree to disagree on the dates. I think Ann St probably dates first (and definitely does not date second). As for the Ann St address, to paraphrase Mike Milken, I have a high degree of confidence it was the cause of the lot's realization.

benjulmag · #8 03-01-2013, 04:22 AM

I will also add that the 1868 Lowells P&S has the baseball verso. The card is trimmed so the address does not appear but presumably it was Nassau Street (I don't recall ever hearing about an ice skate verso with anything other than the Ann Street address).

benjulmag · #9 03-01-2013, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

As for the Ann St address, to paraphrase Mike Milken, I have a high degree of confidence it was the cause of the lot's realization.

Didn't Mr. Milken's acumen result in him ending up in the slammer?

barrysloate · #10 03-01-2013, 06:55 AM

I say the lot went for 81K because two people fought over it to the end. Take one person out of the equation and the next one sells for half the amount.

barrysloate · #11 02-28-2013, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benjulmag

The P&S Red Stockings did okay at 81k. The market for that card obviously is much deeper.

That was my old Red Stockings card. I recognize it because of the smudge on "ew" of New York.

Runscott · #12 02-28-2013, 12:08 PM

You could be dead-broke, find that card picking in Maine, and then retire in India.

drc · #13 02-28-2013, 12:27 PM

Prices did seem low. I wonder if its because so many were offered, plus the shilling in previous auctions post struck me as possibly valid.

The 1869 Reds are one of the most famous teams, so that's where a lot of the value comes from and will always come from. The 1927 Yankees of its day.

I can say that, as someone who worked with a big non-sport CDV and cabinet photo auction recently, baseball CDVs fetch a lot of money, even at these prices. $5,000 is a lot of money for a CDV. For perspective, the auction had an original Russian studio family portrait cabinet of the Romanov family (Czar Nicholas, Anastasia et al) and I think that sold for around $1,000.

I add that, while I fashion myself a photo expert, others on this board and in this thread know a lot more details about these early baseball CDVs. I only brought up the Sam and Harry Wright CDV because, browsing the catalog, it didn't visually resemble an 1870s CDV so I looked into it further.

On this board, I think I'd be called a photo generalist, with a passing knowledge of old baseball.

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