How does this Heritage/Mantle look to you?

Forever Young · #1 03-19-2013, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelly

Ben, really are a sweet guy. My opinion is as good as a thief from the Hall Of Fame that they hired.

Funny you can try to insult people looking the way you do. {Ever consider a trainer?}By the by ask your friend DC which company does he disrespect more Heritage or CC?

That is the end of our conversation
Over and Out.

It IS funny isn't it??? The way both you and Richard attack day after day after day after day.

jgmp123 · #2 03-19-2013, 03:31 PM

Besides David (their differences are well documented), who does Richard or Shelly attack?

Leon · #3 03-19-2013, 03:47 PM

I think Chris from Heritage explained the process quite well. The fact that some of our members either didn't read what he said, or can't comprehend it, is beside the point. Questions are being asked that have been answered already. Things get pulled from every single auction house that runs auctions, mine included. Mistakes happen and it's the way they are handled that counts the most (to me).

Forever Young · #4 03-19-2013, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

I think Chris from Heritage explained the process quite well. The fact that some of our members either didn't read what he said, or can't comprehend it, is beside the point. Questions are being asked that have been answered already. Things get pulled from every single auction house that runs auctions, mine included. Mistakes happen and it's the way they are handled that counts the most (to me).

Thank God for the voice of reason.

RichardSimon · #5 03-19-2013, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

I think Chris from Heritage explained the process quite well. The fact that some of our members either didn't read what he said, or can't comprehend it, is beside the point. Questions are being asked that have been answered already. Things get pulled from every single auction house that runs auctions, mine included. Mistakes happen and it's the way they are handled that counts the most (to me).

Leon - you are correct, the way that it is handled is the important thing.
But they "pre-handle" it by saying the item is pre-certified and in the autograph business, as I have already stated, that means it has been looked at by someone with knowledge of autographs.
I have asked them to explain that, because it is pretty obvious to me that PSA and JSA did not look at the item in question. If they had looked at it, I am certain it would never have made it to the auction site. They both would have rejected that Florida trash in a heartbeat.

Forever Young · #6 03-19-2013, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Leon - you are correct, the way that it is handled is the important thing.
But they "pre-handle" it by saying the item is pre-certified and in the autograph business, as I have already stated, that means it has been looked at by someone with knowledge of autographs.
I have asked them to explain that, because it is pretty obvious to me that PSA and JSA did not look at the item in question. If they had looked at it, I am certain it would never have made it to the auction site. They both would have rejected that Florida trash in a heartbeat.

Please tell me why it is even a big deal??? It either means it is pre-(prior to when they were to have it looked at by psa/jsa) or their own people made a mistake. No one would have got a bad item as it would have been caught by psa or jsa. There is a safety in place either way. Why are you so hung up on this??

RichardSimon · #7 03-19-2013, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forever Young

Please tell me why it is even a big deal??? It either means it is pre-(prior to when they were to have it looked at by psa/jsa) or their own people made a mistake. No one would have got a bad item as it would have been caught by psa or jsa. There is a safety in place either way. Why are you so hung up on this??

When an auction house states an autograph is pre-certified they are stating the item is real and that it has been looked at by a qualified person.
Why put up a forgery and solicit bids otherwise? Why state it has been looked at by a qualified person WHEN IT HAS NOT.
No one would have gotten a bad item that is correct. But I believe they are obfuscating when they state the item has been pre-certified.

Forever Young · #8 03-19-2013, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

When an auction house states an autograph is pre-certified they are implying the item is real and that it has been looked at. Why put up a forgery and solicit bids otherwise?

Ok...fair enough.. well maybe they looked at it with their own team which made a mistake.
Again.. what is the big deal if it gets taken down anyway??

Joe Hunter · #9 03-19-2013, 04:35 PM

If I saw the term "pre-certified" I would come away with the impression that the item had at least been viewed by a knowledgeable person. For example, if an item was submitted to PSA for a Quick Opinion and it came back as "likely genuine", I would consider the item as having been pre-certified. It hasn't been positively authenticated yet, but there is a reasonable chance that it will. I do understand the prefix "pre" means prior to; however, in the context of an auction item I believe it implies there is a reasonable chance the item is authentic and has been deemed so by someone "in the know" prior to receiving a letter of authentication from a reputable TPC.

Deertick · #10 03-19-2013, 05:00 PM

Would an auction house list a ring as "Pre-certified 14k gold" until they got around to actually testing it?

frankbmd · #11 03-19-2013, 05:29 PM

Once again the definition follows:

pre-
a prefix occurring originally in loanwords from Latin, where it meant �before� ( preclude; prevent ); applied freely as a prefix, with the meanings �prior to,� �in advance of,� �early,� �beforehand,� �before,� �in front of,� and with other figurative meanings ( preschool; prewar; prepay; preoral; prefrontal ).

In the context of the current discussion I see no indication that what follows pre- should be interpreted as a fait accompli. I do not think the prefix should be interpreted as a guarantee that what follows is at all certain. It just hasn't happened yet (and may not).

However I feel strongly that all Auction Houses should have a mechanism in place, "prelisting", to "prevent" the "premature" placement in an auction of a bogus item that later requires withdrawl. I think there should be agreement here. My point about the language is secondary, but arguably correct.

Maturity is not a fait accompli of prematurity. Look around.

shelly · #12 03-19-2013, 05:40 PM

There is also slang. Words that are used incorrectly but are well understood when placed in a certain arena. The autograph hobby is one of those places. Pre certified means in this arena to mean that it has been looked at a found to be authentic. Why else would you accept bids or even show it. You look like a fool if where not to be what people thought to be fact.
Wow I have watched to much of Down Town Abbey

travrosty · #13 03-19-2013, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

I think Chris from Heritage explained the process quite well. The fact that some of our members either didn't read what he said, or can't comprehend it, is beside the point. Questions are being asked that have been answered already. Things get pulled from every single auction house that runs auctions, mine included. Mistakes happen and it's the way they are handled that counts the most (to me).

it's not a mistake, they have explained it that they throw any piece of carp up there and psa or jsa eventually gets around to looking at it, in the meantime a forgery is up for bid. a mistake is putting something up you believe to be genuine and it is found out not to be. they arent even looking at it at all when it comes in and it gets put up for bids. it's not a mistake.

it used to say precertified psa and jsa auction loa until we forced them to take it down, and in their usual fashion, they thumbed their nose at the collector and only took the jsa or psa part down, leaving up the pre-certified. It's not precertified and that should come down as well, but try getting chris ivy to do anything pro-active and he will have a little hissy fit and kick his arms and legs like a 2 year old.

And then he can't come on here himself (i have never seen chris ivy come on here) and give an explanation, he sends jonathon or chris nerat to do his light work as he is too big and above it all to explain to us mere serfs and peasants or forum owners or whoever just what the heck they are doing over there in ivory tower number 1 in dallas texas.

if richard gets double banned, i hope i get triple.

Forever Young · #14 03-19-2013, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travrosty

it's not a mistake, they have explained it that they throw any piece of carp up there and psa or jsa eventually gets around to looking at it, in the meantime a forgery is up for bid. a mistake is putting something up you believe to be genuine and it is found out not to be. they arent even looking at it at all when it comes in and it gets put up for bids. it's not a mistake.

it used to say precertified psa and jsa auction loa until we forced them to take it down, and in their usual fashion, they thumbed their nose at the collector and only took the jsa or psa part down, leaving up the pre-certified. It's not precertified and that should come down as well, but try getting chris ivy to do anything pro-active and he will have a little hissy fit and kick his arms and legs like a 2 year old. and then he can't come on here himself and give an explanation, he sends jonathon or chris nerat to do his light work as he is too big and above it all to explain to us mere serfs and peasants or forum owners or whoever just what the heck they are doing over there in ivory tower number 1 in dallas texas.

if richard gets double banned, i hope i get triple.

Now that all three are here. Please let my know what the big deal is since they will get taken down anyway.

Also.." he will have a little hissy fit and kick his arms and legs like a 2 year old." ....is absolutely insane coming from you.

travrosty · #15 03-19-2013, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forever Young

Now that all three are here. Please let my know what the big deal is since they will get taken down anyway.

Also.." he will have a little hissy fit and kick his arms and legs like a 2 year old." ....is absolutely insane coming from you.

it took over 6 months for him to grudgingly agree to take down the jsa precertified when they hadnt looked at it yet. he didnt want to. popular support and opinions from collectors forced him to do it against his will. its like a kid who didnt want to eat his vegetables.

arms crossed and mouth shut tight who won't budge.

he is the director of the sports dept for the largest collectibles auctioneer in the country, son of the ceo/founder. he has responsibilities to do the right thing and get it right, which he is failing/abdicating. i would never pull such bush league auctioneer tactics on the collecting public if i was in charge over there.

and don't worry, i won't be in charge over there so relax. you didnt get the demeaning and patronizing emails from ivy and i did so you dont know how he can come off to a collector, pompous and out of touch.

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