What NY Yankee should be in the HOF?

HexsHeroes · #1 03-21-2013, 06:52 AM

.

Not intended as a slam against the Yankees, as it actually is intended for all teams with an above average percentage of the HOF population.

One of my pet peeves is that that some player performances (stats) have been influenced by playing with teams stocked with good/great players. While true the individual ballplayer had to perform, or be gone, having talented ballplayers hitting before and after you does influence the opportunities an opposing pitcher presents to you as a hitter. The opportunities presented defensively are possibly influenced by having quality pitching, and quality pitching likely influenced by having qualify defenders. The 1927 NY Yankees were an outstanding team. But I have to believe that if you had removed the two best hitters and one best pitcher from that team, while they would still have been a very good team, fewer of the remaining very good players would have made it into the HOF. Just my opinion. That is why I have a softspot for outstanding ballplayers who played for less than brilliant teams over a period of years. I feel they may have had less opportunities or ideal situations inwhich to shine, but they shone never the less with what was given them.

Personally, I feel that it is not enough to say that a player was among the best in the league, year in and year out. If that were the case, Jack Morris (among others), would have been in the HOF years ago. For me, if the player evaluated cannot be considered among the top 50% already in the HOF, then it is a no for HOF induction. I realize this completely dismisses the characteristics of the game during the particular era a ballplayer played in, and therefore is a particularly harsh measure, but I believe the HOF is for the greats of the game; not for the above average but not necessarily great. If a ballplayer cannot be considered among the best ever, then HOF is not for him.

kcohen · #2 03-21-2013, 07:42 AM

The top of the list IMO should be Allie Reynolds with an 8 year run of brilliance in a Yankee uniform. .630 career winning percentage, pitched in 6 WS with 7-2 record and 4 saves.

Can't understand why he isn't in.

refz · #3 03-21-2013, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcohen

The top of the list IMO should be Allie Reynolds with an 8 year run of brilliance in a Yankee uniform. .630 career winning percentage, pitched in 6 WS with 7-2 record and 4 saves.

Can't understand why he isn't in.

+1 Reynolds has my vote, good mention

Peter_Spaeth · #4 03-21-2013, 07:32 PM

Baseball reference's scoring system ranks Allie Reynolds as the 391st best pitcher ever.

npa589 · #5 03-21-2013, 07:43 PM

With regard to the Yankees, I've never understood the pass for their stadium. For some crazy reason, Wrigley Field is recognized as a band box, where it is easy to hit home runs - so HR stats are overlooked. Yet, half the year, and on any given day, it is nearly impossible to hit a home run (unless you're juiced up). Every day in the New Yankee Stadium and in the old one gave hitters the opportunity to pull or push a pop fly into the bleachers. Maris's season was magical, but so was the porch that played perfectly to his swing.

D. Bergin · #6 03-21-2013, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by npa589

With regard to the Yankees, I've never understood the pass for their stadium. For some crazy reason, Wrigley Field is recognized as a band box, where it is easy to hit home runs - so HR stats are overlooked. Yet, half the year, and on any given day, it is nearly impossible to hit a home run (unless you're juiced up). Every day in the New Yankee Stadium and in the old one gave hitters the opportunity to pull or push a pop fly into the bleachers. Maris's season was magical, but so was the porch that played perfectly to his swing.

I never heard of HR stats in Wrigley Field being overlooked.

Coors Field is pretty much the only park that players get penalized for playing in when it comes to HOF or general prestige.

It's the PED's of ballparks.

I think everybody else gets a pass.

Yankee Stadium also ruined many a left hander who fell in love with that short porch and all of a sudden forgot how to hit pitches on the outer half of the plate, and right handers who weren't quite as strong as the Dave Winfields or Mickey Mantles of the world, to put the ball out on that side of the park.

Nashvol · #7 03-22-2013, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by npa589

With regard to the Yankees, I've never understood the pass for their stadium. For some crazy reason, Wrigley Field is recognized as a band box, where it is easy to hit home runs - so HR stats are overlooked. Yet, half the year, and on any given day, it is nearly impossible to hit a home run (unless you're juiced up). Every day in the New Yankee Stadium and in the old one gave hitters the opportunity to pull or push a pop fly into the bleachers. Maris's season was magical, but so was the porch that played perfectly to his swing.

Thirty one of Maris' home runs were hit in other parks.

npa589 · #8 03-22-2013, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nashvol

Thirty one of Maris' home runs were hit in other parks.

Fair point...

--- I'm just a completely biased Cubs fan, which, due to lack of success, is a franchise that serves as the antithesis of the Yankees. If I had to pin my hopes on any argument for more Yankees being in the HOF than should be - it would be due to the postseason success.

And about Wrigley's HR stats being overlooked, I'm mainly referring to my frustration listening to certain writers speaking of why Santo didn't deserve to be in the hall of fame. Since WAR has been mentioned, look at his career WAR rankings for position players and who he is ahead of, among other things...

I never really understood it, and attributed it to him being a Cub in that era of futility. When I look at the Chicago Cubs roster of 1969, and know that they didn't even make the playoffs, I then realize that the Cubs will never win a World Series.

To get back on course, and backtracking on my tangent, I would say Nettles should get discussion...

npa589 · #9 03-21-2013, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hexsheroes

.

Not intended as a slam against the yankees, as it actually is intended for all teams with an above average percentage of the hof population.

One of my pet peeves is that that some player performances (stats) have been influenced by playing with teams stocked with good/great players. While true the individual ballplayer had to perform, or be gone, having talented ballplayers hitting before and after you does influence the opportunities an opposing pitcher presents to you as a hitter. The opportunities presented defensively are possibly influenced by having quality pitching, and quality pitching likely influenced by having qualify defenders. The 1927 ny yankees were an outstanding team. But i have to believe that if you had removed the two best hitters and one best pitcher from that team, while they would still have been a very good team, fewer of the remaining very good players would have made it into the hof. Just my opinion. That is why i have a softspot for outstanding ballplayers who played for less than brilliant teams over a period of years. I feel they may have had less opportunities or ideal situations inwhich to shine, but they shone never the less with what was given them.

+1

I thought about offering an optional way of looking at this, and I guess I am now... saying I think a better question to ask is which Yankee HOF'ers should NOT be in the hall of fame? Let's say if the same players played with the Cubs for example, or the Expos...

For example...had Joe Gordon played for someone else, I doubt he ever gets in. He got a maximum of 28.5% from the BBWAA during his eligibility pre- veterans committee.

.

bigtrain · #10 03-21-2013, 08:36 AM

I was a big fan of Mattingly and Munson. Both played like HoFers in their prime years but didn't have enough of them or the longevity to get my vote. It kind of irks me because I don't think that Fisk was a pimple on Munson's rear but that's an argument for another day. If Nettles hit .268 instead of .248 he's a slam dunk. Terrific fielder, 390 homers. I would vote for Allie Reynolds, 2 no-hitters in one season plus .630 winning percentage but he played for the great Yankee teams of the fifties so his wins are somewhat inflated. His pre-Yankee record with the Indians was not much.

dabigyankeeman · #11 03-21-2013, 09:12 AM

Nettles. His glove was almost the equal to Brooks. He could hit home runs. The guy was great.

jhs5120 · #12 03-21-2013, 09:37 AM

In order of merit

1. George Steinbrenner - Like him or hate him, he changed the game and created a dynasty.
2. Craig Nettles
3. Thurman Munson
4. Roger Maris
5. Elston Howard
6. Don Mattingly
7. Tommy John
8. Billy Martin

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