1959 Ted Williams Fleer Cards

[the 'stache]

May I ask what makes the "Ted Signs" card more valuable than the others? Scarcity, or something else?

[rsdill2]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

May I ask what makes the "Ted Signs" card more valuable than the others? Scarcity, or something else?

Bucky Harris, the BoSox executive in the picture with the splendid splinter had an exclusive contract with Topps. Once Topps got wind of the card being sold, they threatened Fleer with a lawsuit so Fleer pulled it from distribution...at least that's how I understand it.

[the 'stache]

That makes sense, Robert. Thank you!

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by rsdill2

Bucky Harris, the BoSox executive in the picture with the splendid splinter had an exclusive contract with Topps. Once Topps got wind of the card being sold, they threatened Fleer with a lawsuit so Fleer pulled it from distribution...at least that's how I understand it.

I have no legitimate reason to doubt that, but I had always heard that Williams had not actually signed a contract at that point. I would wonder why Harris would even have a contract with Topps. What card company, not that there was much competition, would even want a contract with the Harris likeness? And if Harris had did indeed have some sort of BoSox contract with Topps, why wouldn't he have tried to pull the whole Fleer set, with all those Boston insignias on Williams' jerseys?

[ALR-bishop]

Paul---before he was a GM he was an active player and a manger

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

Paul---before he was a GM he was an active player and a manger

Al, I get that. But by the time the set came out that phase for Harris had been a long time gone. If Harris wanted money, wouldn't it have been easier for Fleer to just give him a few hundred? Also, as far as Harris being a "manger", maybe Harris thought he was the Second Coming (said in jest).

Paul

[ALR-bishop]

Paul-- your guess is as good as mine. In the early years Topps signed numerous managers and even coaches to card contracts. There are 25 of them in the 54 set. Someone pointed out Bucky appeared on a Bowman card in the early 50s and so he must have been under contract with them. When Topps bought out Bowman pre 1959, they acquired all of Bowman's assets, including the player contracts. But, I am just speculating. No first hand knowledge

[tedzan]

Hey guys

Having seen Ted Williams play (1947 - 1959), I was an avid fan of his. I acquired this set (minus #68) for $35 in gem mint condition in 1982.
That was the going price for it in the early 1980's. Then I purchased an ExMt #68 for only $75.

In 1984, I met Ted and had a very interesting conversation with him "talkin baseball", and baseball cards. The following is straight from Ted's
mouth......

"In late 1958, the FLEER Gum Company contacted my agent to do a series of BB cards depicting my life. FLEER offered me $500 for the rights.
Sy Berger (TOPPS Executive) counter-offered $1000 to retain the exclusive rights to me (Ted). Well, (as Ted chuckles), this started a bidding
war between TOPPS and FLEER. When FLEER raised the stakes to $5000, Sy Berger gave in to FLEER.....and, the rest is history."

Then, Ted added (as he smiled)...."$5000 was a lot of money back then for just having your pictures on a series of BB cards."

I responded....."Sure was, 5000 was my Dad's annual salary."


In my book, Ted was not only a tremendous ballplayer, but also a tremendous person. Willing to give of his time to talk with you.

Oh, did I say.....I've always been a Yankees fan.

P.S....when I told Ted that I've always been a Yankees fan, he asked me why did I root for him to hit a HR in the upper deck in RF in Yankee
Stadium every time the Red Sox were in town ?

I told him...."back in 1949, and the 1950's, I always felt that the Yankees would win the Pennant every year, anyway."

Ted had a good laugh at my response.


TED Z

[ALR-bishop]

Paul-- your guess is as good as mine. In the early years Topps signed numerous managers and even coaches to card contracts. There are 25 of them in the 54 set. Someone pointed out Bucky appeared on a Bowman card in the early 50s and so he must have been under contract with them. When Topps bought out Bowman pre 1959, they acquired all of Bowman's assets, including the player contracts. But, I am just speculating. No first hand knowledge

[pclpads]

Originally Posted by rsdill2

Bucky Harris, the BoSox executive in the picture with the splendid splinter had an exclusive contract with Topps. Once Topps got wind of the card being sold, they threatened Fleer with a lawsuit so Fleer pulled it from distribution...at least that's how I understand it.

That doesn't make sense. Why would Harris have an "exclusive" contract with Topps? Harris was never on a Topps card and in fact the last card he appeared on was the '53 Bowman B/W issue, six years prior. I think it's more likely Teddy was still under contract to Topps, since he appeared on two cards in the prior year '58T set and was still an active player.

[darkhorse9]

I have nothing to base this theory on, but isn't it possible that the problem wasn't with the subjects on card #68 but the photograph? Photograph copyrights are held by the photographer. That looks like it may have been an AP photo or some other press conference photo. Maybe Fleer never got clearance to use the picture and that was the problem. Or maybe Harris owned the photo and wanted compensation for it.

[ALR-bishop]

Oddly, he does appear on a Topps card, but in the 1953 Reprint set from 1991. Also Ted's contract status would not explain why card 68, as opposed to all the other cards in the set is shorted.

Topps contracts ( and Bowman's) were not exclusive of the rights to a players likeness. The contracts granted exclusive rights to market such likenesses with confections ( gum or candy)...which resulted in alternate packaging by Fleer with a cookie in 63 and Leaf with a marble in 1960. The contracts were often, or at least sometimes for indefinite periods. As has been pointed out, Harris appeared on a Bowman card and when Topps bought out Bowman, the purchase included the Bowman contracts

[Exhibitman]

I've never had much interest in the set but the Ted's All Star Record card is a classic image I'd not mind adding to my collection.

[Jayworld]

Thanks for all the great posts and information. Very helpful! I always wondered, too, why the #68 was a short print. Thank you for the discussion.