Babe Ruth?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Is it safe to assume that since you guys know this guy has been forging for over 20 years now and you know his tell that you don't know his identity? Otherwise to allow this to continue for 20+ years is a bit silly is it not?

Where did I say I don't know his identity? I know his name.
He has been reported to law enforcement, we are autograph people, we are not the FBI and we are not the police.
What do you want from us? Should I just go and shoot the guy?
So many people in the forgery business can operate with impunity because law enforcement won't do anything.
I have reported much to law enforcement, occasionally there is a good outcome, more often than not there is no outcome.
What would you suggest Dan?

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Where did I say I don't know his identity? I know his name.
He has been reported to law enforcement, we are autograph people, we are not the FBI and we are not the police.
What do you want from us? Should I just go and shoot the guy?
So many people in the forgery business can operate with impunity because law enforcement won't do anything.
What would you suggest Dan?

You don't have to shoot him, maybe break his fingers so he can't forge anymore. Lol

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

You don't have to shoot him, maybe break his fingers so he can't forge anymore. Lol

Good one Brock, I am booking airline tickets to Michigan now .

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Good one Brock, I am booking airline tickets to Michigan now .

I'm sure you are kidding, but I remember things getting so bad with a guy in the billiards hobby ripping people off, that a couple of guys were on the verge of buying plane tickets to Milwaukee to get satisfaction. These people actually knew the obscure bar where they thief would be, evidence would be in hand, and all they had to do was figure out a way to get in and out with their own lives. It didn't happen, and they ended up eventually getting their money back by contacting his local police department, but it was very tempting.

If you steal from people long enough, you'll eventually get hold of someone to whom money means a lot less than setting things straight.

[jgmp123]

I did just happen to notice that PSA is advertising the card and the H&S auction on their site...

http://www.psacard.com/Articles/Arti...-ends-april-11

[Frozen in Time]

Usually the only threads discussing autos that I follow are those for Mantle - which I do solely for educating myself. But, wow this one has everything and has been all over the place, except for what matters most and that is a cogent explanation for why this Ruth is deemed authentic or a forgery. Aside from the plethora of personal issues and personality exchanges sadly that information appears to have been pushed aside.

Don't get me wrong, I understand to some degree a few of the underlying factors that have carried over from previous threads between participants and I do find the back and forth somewhat entertaining - along the same lines that the "reality shows" are entertaining. But from the standpoint of acquiring some new information to help with assessing the authenticity of a Ruth auto I'm not getting a lot.

So let me see if I can generate some info. It was mentioned that the potential forger for this Ruth has a "tell" in his work. Is this a characteristic of his Ruth forgeries that always appears in his work but that never appears in a real Ruth auto? If so, how does one determine that - would not one have to have multiple Ruth autos that are 100% known to be the forger's?

Thanks,

Craig

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Frozen in Time

Usually the only threads discussing autos that I follow are those for Mantle - which I do solely for educating myself. But, wow this one has everything and has been all over the place, except for what matters most and that is a cogent explanation for why this Ruth is deemed authentic or a forgery. Aside from the plethora of personal issues and personality exchanges sadly that information appears to have been pushed aside.

Don't get me wrong, I understand to some degree a few of the underlying factors that have carried over from previous threads between participants and I do find the back and forth somewhat entertaining - along the same lines that the "reality shows" are entertaining. But from the standpoint of acquiring some new information to help with assessing the authenticity of a Ruth auto I'm not getting a lot.

So let me see if I can generate some info. It was mentioned that the potential forger for this Ruth has a "tell" in his work. Is this a characteristic of his Ruth forgeries that always appears in his work but that never appears in a real Ruth auto? If so, how does one determine that - would not one have to have multiple Ruth autos that are 100% known to be the forger's?

Thanks,

Craig

This thread has also had several 'talk show hosts', but that's understandable too..

It's a shame that Ruth himself apparently didn't have a "tell". But then again, maybe he did, but that's a secret as well

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

I did just happen to notice that PSA is advertising the card and the H&S auction on their site...

http://www.psacard.com/Articles/Arti...-ends-april-11

Why shouldn't they? The ticket is good.

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Why shouldn't they? The ticket is good.

David,

Just referring back to the "card was sent to Heritage and rejected by PSA" theory..

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Runscott

If you steal from people long enough, you'll eventually get hold of someone to whom money means a lot less than setting things straight.

+1

[shelly]

Dan, that is by far one of the most pointless question that I have ever read on this board. Here is my question. What would you do that Richard didn't do?

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by shelly

Dan, that is by far one of the most pointless question that I have ever read on this board. Here is my question. What would you do that Richard didn't do?

See above.

[jgmp123]

Wasn't there a guy named Rick Behar running a crap shop out of Michigan a while back...Colossal Auction Company....I assume no, but any connections?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Wasn't there a guy named Rick Behar running a crap shop out of Michigan a while back...Colossal Auction Company....I assume no, but any connections?

Not that I am aware of.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

What do you want from us? Should I just go and shoot the guy?

What would you suggest Dan?

How about sharing your information with Huggins and Scott? (Especially your so-called "tell.")

How about sharing that tell with Jimmy Spence? (I've seen him help you out at shows years ago.)

You haven't done either.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Where did I say I don't know his identity? I know his name.
He has been reported to law enforcement, we are autograph people, we are not the FBI and we are not the police.
What do you want from us? Should I just go and shoot the guy?
So many people in the forgery business can operate with impunity because law enforcement won't do anything.
I have reported much to law enforcement, occasionally there is a good outcome, more often than not there is no outcome.
What would you suggest Dan?

Well, if you guys are sure this guy is doing it how about telling us his name so we don't deal with him. How about letting us in on his "tells" so we don't fall for his forgeries.

[RichardSimon]

Yeah, announce a guys name, when I have no physical proof now of his guilt because his questionable material was returned to him by the dealer who he was trying to sell to. (it was not in my possession).
I called someone a crook, in writing, in the distant past, and what happened? I got sued for my troubles. Why don't you guarantee my legal fees Dan, in case I get sued, and then I will be happy to reveal the name.
Announce his tell so he can correct it, sure thing.
When a certain Philadelphia store owner was on here a while back, we had all kinds of information and many examples in his ebay store of his questionable activities. That was no problem to speak out, for most of us, when we were discussing him. Leon even made a mockery of his attorney.
And as far as I know, the guy in Michigan does not sell retail, so the board members have nothing to fear, he sends stuff to dealers and to auction houses.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Yeah, announce a guys name, when I have no physical proof now of his guilt because his questionable material was returned to him by the dealer who he was trying to sell to. (it was not in my possession).
I called someone a crook, in writing, in the distant past, and what happened? I got sued for my troubles. Why don't you guarantee my legal fees Dan, in case I get sued, and then I will be happy to reveal the name.
Announce his tell so he can correct it, sure thing.
When a certain Philadelphia store owner was on here a while back, we had all kinds of information and many examples in his ebay store of his questionable activities. That was no problem to speak out, for most of us, when we were discussing him. Leon even made a mockery of his attorney.
And as far as I know, the guy in Michigan does not sell retail, so the board members have nothing to fear, he sends stuff to dealers and to auction houses.

So, how about PMing me his name, and PMing me his tell.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

So, how about PMing me his name, and PMing me his tell.

I got sued for sending out one e mail calling a guy a crook. One e mail was all it took, and I had to spend five figures to have the case dismissed. Even when you win you lose.
I would not send you a PM with the name of this guy or the tell.
If you are that concerned, if you ever get anything offered to you by a stranger from Michigan you can PM me his name and I will tell you if it is him, and PM me the next Babe Ruth you want to buy and I will tell you if the tell is in it.

[travrosty]

what an entire waste of a thread this has been.

[shelly]

Oh my God. Travis are you really serious or you just being who you are.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by travrosty

what an entire waste of a thread this has been.

I have been quite entertained by it, and learned a lot. Plus, we had both the auction house and the consignor participate, as well as several of the more-respected autograph guys.

You just can't look at it like a 3 hour movie that says 'to be continued' at the end, and then the producer runs out of money.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I got sued for sending out one e mail calling a guy a crook. One e mail was all it took, and I had to spend five figures to have the case dismissed. Even when you win you lose.
I would not send you a PM with the name of this guy or the tell.
If you are that concerned, if you ever get anything offered to you by a stranger from Michigan you can PM me his name and I will tell you if it is him, and PM me the next Babe Ruth you want to buy and I will tell you if the tell is in it.

Fair enough. I guess the crooks are basically untouchables in the autograph hobby.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Fair enough. I guess the crooks are basically untouchables in the autograph hobby.

Well Dan, if you can work with law enforcement to get this guy, I will happily give you his name.
Unfortunately the attempts to get him have so far not succeeded, but I hope some future attempt will nail him.
And you are right about one thing, the crooks MOSTLY are untouchable but some have paid a price.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I got sued for sending out one e mail calling a guy a crook. One e mail was all it took, and I had to spend five figures to have the case dismissed. Even when you win you lose.
I would not send you a PM with the name of this guy or the tell.

Why not the tell? You can't be sued for that.

(And, BTW, I call BS on your story. Libel is almost impossible to prove even if you had written a scathing newspaper article, or a book. One email? Please.

Good excuse, though.)