Babe Ruth?

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by hugginsandscott

Would you say the same thing to Leon? I can't express how much I disagree with this statement, and actually take offense to it.
Josh

Josh,

Okay if you disagree then please answer...

What does Leon have to do with my statement?

What do you owe the hobby?

[hugginsandscott]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Josh,

Okay if you disagree then please answer...

What does Leon have to do with my statement?

What do you owe the hobby?

Leon runs an auction house. Do you feel he owes nothing to the hobby? Bill Huggins has been in this hobby since 1976. I have been with him since 1985. Is it a business? Yes. It is also a hobby? Yes. To dismiss our integrity by saying "we owe nothing to the hobby" is a presumptuous statement about who we are as people. We have always done the right thing, in the best interest of the hobby. If there is a problem, we address it in an open and honest manner.
For this particular case, I don't think we have done anything wrong. I guess I don't understand how "you feel for someone who is going to purchase a piece from us." I promise you, anyone who is going to spend the kind of money that this piece is going to sell for, has their own opinions and beliefs about the validity of the piece. They trust the authenticators and their opinions and therefore they are going to spend their money on a piece they like. What business that is of yours, I'm not quite sure. Additionally, all I've received from anyone in this thread is opinion. I had a conversation with Chris yesterday where he told me in a "factual manner" that this was no good, but he couldn't really reveal his sources on certain questions that were unanswered (including why he thought PSA rejected it, when they have never seen it). He told me the ticket was "bullshit", although again, there is no proof of that and I infact showed other tickets stamped exactly the same way for a different game from this series. He told me that I needed to tell JSA the name of the forger, but I promise you that if Chris was so sure that this was done by that forger, JSA has a very similar exemplar file with examples from that forger and after showing to JSA two different times, he still felt, in his opinion, that this autograph is good. We also showed it to SGC's ticket authenticator for a second time, and they still think it's good. For our auction, those are two of the third party authenticators that we use and offer our items for sale with. The people who bid on those items trust those peoples opinions and bid accordingly.
To be very honest, I have never sold any piece with a Chris Williams LOA (nor have I ever seen one). I also have never been asked by a single bidder of ours if we could get a Chris Williams LOA for one of our pieces, so we don't use him as an authenticator. Conversely, we have been asked more times than I can count for authentication from JSA, SGC or PSA, so those are the ones we use.
I'm sorry for the long winded response, but James, your assumptions about our integrity really got under my skin.
Josh Wulkan
Vice President
Huggins and Scott Auctions

[jgmp123]

Josh,

See that is where you are mistaken, I never once mentioned anything about your "integrity". To say you own nothing to the hobby, is not a question of your "integrity".

What gets under my skin is this statement on your website....

At Huggins & Scott, we take great pride in only offering "IRONCLAD", "LEAD PIPE", "NO QUESTIONS ASKED" autographs.

and this one....

AFTER 30 DAYS, THERE ARE NO REFUNDS, EXCHANGES OR CREDITS! ALSO, THE ENTIRE LOT MUST BE INTACT AND IN THE SAME FORM AS WHEN IT WAS SOLD IN ORDER TO RECEIVE ANY CREDIT OR REFUND CONSIDERATIONS - NO EXCEPTIONS!!

What if the exception was that PSA/DNA said an item was bad?

[slidekellyslide]

James, what proof do you have that this autograph and ticket are forgeries? None. JSA has looked at it twice. JSA (whether anyone agrees or disagrees with them) is the standard in the hobby. And to me it very much sounded like you questioned their integrity and I'm not surprised that Josh took offense to it.

[cubsfan-budman]

I don't see what the issue is at this point.

Travis made a fool of Chris Williams and the rest of the doubters.

Both the consignor and Huggins & Scott have gone above and beyond to answer questions and work to address any authenticity concerns, including getting second opinions and speaking directly with Chris Williams.

I'd love to see definitive evidence that the signature is bad, but it seems clear that none is forthcoming.

It seems to me that Chris Williams and is the one that feels that he owes nothing to the hobby, as he apparently feels that protecting the buyer from this "forgery" is not something he's willing to do.

H&S has done plenty in this case.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

I'd love to see definitive evidence that the signature is bad, but it seems clear that none is forthcoming.

For the simple reason that none exists.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

For the simple reason that none exists.

I completely agree.

[Frozen in Time]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

I don't see what the issue is at this point.

Travis made a fool of Chris Williams and the rest of the doubters.

Both the consignor and Huggins & Scott have gone above and beyond to answer questions and work to address any authenticity concerns, including getting second opinions and speaking directly with Chris Williams.

I'd love to see definitive evidence that the signature is bad, but it seems clear that none is forthcoming.

It seems to me that Chris Williams and is the one that feels that he owes nothing to the hobby, as he apparently feels that protecting the buyer from this "forgery" is not something he's willing to do.

H&S has done plenty in this case.

+1 If the consignor's story is true (and his prompt responses to all questions in this thread lead me to believe it is) then I guess the only definitive proof that the auto is a fake would be if someone could produce an image of this exact ticket stub unsigned from an earlier auction or similar transaction.

[shelly]

Travis made fools of the people that believe it is not authentic. How did he do that by showing autographs side by side. Then stating and opinion. Like I said at the start. You either believe its authentic or not. No one on this site is a fool. The might be overly zealous but not fools.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Frozen in Time

+1 If the consignor's story is true (and his prompt responses to all questions in this thread lead me to believe it is) then I guess the only definitive proof that the auto is a fake would be if someone could produce an image of this exact ticket stub unsigned from an earlier auction or similar transaction.

+1

[hugginsandscott]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Josh,

See that is where you are mistaken, I never once mentioned anything about your "integrity". To say you own nothing to the hobby, is not a question of your "integrity".

What gets under my skin is this statement on your website....

At Huggins & Scott, we take great pride in only offering "IRONCLAD", "LEAD PIPE", "NO QUESTIONS ASKED" autographs.

and this one....

AFTER 30 DAYS, THERE ARE NO REFUNDS, EXCHANGES OR CREDITS! ALSO, THE ENTIRE LOT MUST BE INTACT AND IN THE SAME FORM AS WHEN IT WAS SOLD IN ORDER TO RECEIVE ANY CREDIT OR REFUND CONSIDERATIONS - NO EXCEPTIONS!!

What if the exception was that PSA/DNA said an item was bad?

that rarely happens, and when it does, we deal with those on a case by case basis with the winning bidder and the TPA's to get an amicable resolution for all. I am going to stop now.
Josh

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by hugginsandscott

...I had a conversation with Chris yesterday where he told me in a "factual manner" that this was no good, but he couldn't really reveal his sources on certain questions that were unanswered (including why he thought PSA rejected it, when they have never seen it). He told me the ticket was "bullshit", although again, there is no proof of that and I infact showed other tickets stamped exactly the same way for a different game from this series. He told me that I needed to tell JSA the name of the forger, but I promise you that if Chris was so sure that this was done by that forger, JSA has a very similar exemplar file with examples from that forger and after showing to JSA two different times, he still felt, in his opinion, that this autograph is good.

What professionalism on Chris' part! LOL!

From the very beginning--the start of this thread ten days ago--Chris has had absolutely nothing. Asked countless times to put his money where his mouth is... again, and again, nothing.

Because there is nothing. (Nothing, that is, but Chris' bluster.)

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by hugginsandscott

I had a conversation with Chris yesterday where he told me in a "factual manner" that this was no good, but he couldn't really reveal his sources on certain questions that were unanswered (including why he thought PSA rejected it, when they have never seen it). He told me the ticket was "bullshit", although again, there is no proof of that and I infact showed other tickets stamped exactly the same way for a different game from this series. He told me that I needed to tell JSA the name of the forger, but I promise you that if Chris was so sure that this was done by that forger, JSA has a very similar exemplar file with examples from that forger and after showing to JSA two different times, he still felt, in his opinion, that this autograph is good. We also showed it to SGC's ticket authenticator for a second time, and they still think it's good. For our auction, those are two of the third party authenticators that we use and offer our items for sale with. The people who bid on those items trust those peoples opinions and bid accordingly.
To be very honest, I have never sold any piece with a Chris Williams LOA (nor have I ever seen one). I also have never been asked by a single bidder of ours if we could get a Chris Williams LOA for one of our pieces, so we don't use him as an authenticator. Conversely, we have been asked more times than I can count for authentication from JSA, SGC or PSA, so those are the ones we use.
I'm sorry for the long winded response, but James, your assumptions about our integrity really got under my skin.
Josh Wulkan
Vice President
Huggins and Scott Auctions

So he won't tell you why it's bad either? He also avoided your questions about PSA rejecting it as well? Nothing to see here folks...the emperor has no clothes.