It's now official - Mastro trimmed hisT206 Wagner

nolemmings · #1 04-14-2013, 05:45 PM

Another two cents. To the poster who asked whether Kendrick would have to show that any loss or diminished value was not attributed to other market conditions I would answer yes. The Plt must (nearly) always show that the damage he claims was caused by Df's conduct, although the evidence needed and the degree of certainty can be contested issues. However, I think there is a good argument that in this case, the Wagner card lives in its own market--that the hobby generally and the overall economy do not have much impact on driving its sales, for the buyer pool consists largely of people who have no great concern about such factors.

Lawyers are often very creative, although maybe not this one. Even if the card has appreciated, particularly if only by some small amount, I could see someone asserting that Kendrick has suffered damage by the now confirmed statements that his Wagner card was trimmed. The argument could be made that the card historically ALWAYS sells for at least x% more upon resale, and that if it doesn't now: 1) it's because of the fraud and 2) the difference is Kendrick's damages-- he should have made more profit. Don't get me wrong, I see this as a tough one and damages cannot be deemed speculative, but I make the point only to show that the more creative ones out there could probably stir up something. Moreover, I also believe that if he can prove any compensatory damages he could also ask for punitive damages-which greatly expands the stakes.

Granted, Kendrick has expressed no interest in selling or concern about this latest Mastro news, and there may be PR and personal reasons why he will just leave this alone, but it's sometimes fun for us on the outside to ponder the possibilities.

nolemmings · #2 04-14-2013, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Sorry to get so heated about this one. I think it is frustration from work bleeding over.

No problem. I hear ya, and have been known to be a bit irritable myself (this just in).

Kenny Cole · #3 04-14-2013, 06:09 PM

I think all previous owners have standing to sue. And here, if you can prove any detriment whatsoever from the fraud, you are entitled to at least nominal damages, even if you can't prove entitlement to compensatory damages. Since its a tort action, nominal damages for fraud gets you to the jury on punis. Viola!!!

Peter_Spaeth · #4 04-14-2013, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

I think all previous owners have standing to sue. And here, if you can prove any detriment whatsoever from the fraud, you are entitled to at least nominal damages, even if you can't prove entitlement to compensatory damages. Since its a tort action, nominal damages for fraud gets you to the jury on punis. Viola!!!

And if wishes were horses...

Kenny Cole · #5 04-14-2013, 07:25 PM

Peter,

I'm not wishing anything. I agree that it would be a difficult case. But I also think that some of the buyers could probably come up with something other than the purchase price which would get you to the jury. Buyer's fee on purchase then private sale, whatever. The capital gains tax issue for the one winner suggested above is an interesting thought.

If you get to the jury on punis then all bets are off. It probably wouldn't cost too much to try either. A couple of depositions and a summary judgment response. Give it to a young lawyer who needs courtroom time and let them run with it.

nolemmings · #6 04-14-2013, 07:31 PM

Quote:

It probably wouldn't cost too much to try either. A couple of depositions and a summary judgment response. Give it to a young lawyer who needs courtroom time and let them run with it.

I dunno Kenny. Given the Dfs I could see a lot of paper thrown around and hurdles tossed in the way, valid or not. Besides, given the upside and potential notoriety, wouldn't you want to tackle it yourself?

Kenny Cole · #7 04-14-2013, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I dunno Kenny. Given the Dfs I could see a lot of paper thrown around and hurdles tossed in the way, valid or not. Besides, given the upside and potential notoriety, wouldn't you want to tackle it yourself?

Todd,

Uh, no. I am well past the stage where I care about potential notoriety and have other cases which probably have more potential upside.

As far as I am concerned this is a theoretical issue only. Thus, the hungry young lawyer angle seems perfect to me.

Peter_Spaeth · #8 04-14-2013, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Peter,

I'm not wishing anything. I agree that it would be a difficult case. But I also think that some of the buyers could probably come up with something other than the purchase price which would get you to the jury. Buyer's fee on purchase then private sale, whatever. The capital gains tax issue for the one winner suggested above is an interesting thought.

If you get to the jury on punis then all bets are off. It probably wouldn't cost too much to try either. A couple of depositions and a summary judgment response. Give it to a young lawyer who needs courtroom time and let them run with it.

So Jim Copeland pays 125K, sells for 461K less Sotheby's cut, and he has a fraud claim that gets him to a jury for punitive damages. OK. If you say so.

Or Brian Siegel who bought for $1M plus and sold for $2M plus. Yeah, he would make an excellent fraud plaintiff.

Kenny Cole · #9 04-14-2013, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So Jim Copeland pays 125K, sells for 461K less Sotheby's cut, and he has a fraud claim that gets him to a jury for punitive damages. OK. If you say so.

Or Brian Siegel who bought for $1M plus and sold for $2M plus. Yeah, he would make an excellent fraud plaintiff.

But that wasn't the issue. The issue was whether or not you could get a claim to the jury. IMO, you can. Now you are dodging that question and raising a completely different issue. You must be a defense lawyer.

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