Ty Cobb ..Separating Fact from Fiction

thenavarro · #1 04-15-2013, 09:24 PM

I came to an agreement to purchase this one last night, so it should be on the way to me soon. It's not signed, but I thought it was neat and worthy of picking up to go along with my other letter.

In this one, you can read where young Harold O'Neal, Jr. writes to Cobb and tells him about his grandpa playing with Cobb, mentions writing to Cobb before without getting a response, mentions how Cobb's suggestions have helped him in his ball playing abilities, but evidently makes the mistake of questioning why Cobb wrote his Life articles a certain way.

Ty doesn't even bother wasting a piece of his stationary on young Harold and proceeds to ignore most of his letter, concentrating on a defense of his Life series, and ending by basically telling Harold the reason he didn't get a previous reply was because he didn't follow autograph etiquette by enclosing a self addressed and stamped envelope. To add insult to injury, Ty didn't even sign his reply, LOL.

Here's the text of Ty's response in case you don't want to twist and strain to read his reply:

"Dear Harold,
I note the fault you found in my Life stories, not mentioning certain players. I had only 12000 words allotted to me to use, the subject was selected as given to me by �Life�. I did not choose. If you were a very careful reader of story before you formed and expressed an opinion, you would have seen and realized-I said Musial and Rizzuto were type and example of ball players of moderns who could have played on old timer teams. I had to use only 12000 words, of course Reese & many others Yes Feller is a real or was a fine pitcher not because he is your favorite, he with any other modern pitcher cannot be placed on an all time pitching staff you have to go to the old timers see records, that counts � How would you place any modern pitcher on all time � Johnson, Mathewson, Alexander, Walsh, Plank, Grove, old Cy Young many others- lets be right in all this Records

You to be right, as I was, should have enclosed for convenience an addressed and stamped envelope. I receive an average of 4 requests for autographs alone

Here's the envelope this was sent in, postmarked from Menlo Park. It's not even initialed front or back like Cobb sometimes did. Evidently young Harold wasn't getting anything resembling a signature

Big Dave · #2 04-15-2013, 09:32 PM

That is funny.

Runscott · #3 04-15-2013, 09:41 PM

As Hank pointed out, many men who played alongside and against Cobb support the facts that we seem to be trying to turn into fiction. I collect Cobb stuff because I admire a great many things about him, especially the way he responded to letters and autograph-seekers, but other things about him were not so great.

Runscott · #4 04-16-2013, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenavarro

I came to an agreement to purchase this one last night, so it should be on the way to me soon. It's not signed, but I thought it was neat and worthy of picking up to go along with my other letter.

In this one, you can read where young Harold O'Neal, Jr. writes to Cobb and tells him about his grandpa playing with Cobb, mentions writing to Cobb before without getting a response, mentions how Cobb's suggestions have helped him in his ball playing abilities, but evidently makes the mistake of questioning why Cobb wrote his Life articles a certain way.

Ty doesn't even bother wasting a piece of his stationary on young Harold and proceeds to ignore most of his letter, concentrating on a defense of his Life series, and ending by basically telling Harold the reason he didn't get a previous reply was because he didn't follow autograph etiquette by enclosing a self addressed and stamped envelope. To add insult to injury, Ty didn't even sign his reply, LOL.

Here's the text of Ty's response in case you don't want to twist and strain to read his reply:

"Dear Harold,
I note the fault you found in my Life stories, not mentioning certain players. I had only 12000 words allotted to me to use, the subject was selected as given to me by �Life�. I did not choose. If you were a very careful reader of story before you formed and expressed an opinion, you would have seen and realized-I said Musial and Rizzuto were type and example of ball players of moderns who could have played on old timer teams. I had to use only 12000 words, of course Reese & many others Yes Feller is a real or was a fine pitcher not because he is your favorite, he with any other modern pitcher cannot be placed on an all time pitching staff you have to go to the old timers see records, that counts � How would you place any modern pitcher on all time � Johnson, Mathewson, Alexander, Walsh, Plank, Grove, old Cy Young many others- lets be right in all this Records

You to be right, as I was, should have enclosed for convenience an addressed and stamped envelope. I receive an average of 4 requests for autographs alone

...

Here's the envelope this was sent in, postmarked from Menlo Park. It's not even initialed front or back like Cobb sometimes did. Evidently young Harold wasn't getting anything resembling a signature

Mike, that's a great letter - I remember reading it previously. I ended up buying a 1-pager where Cobb was helping someone out who wanted information on a player. Cobb was very, very helpful - definitely above and beyond.

Curious - it's been mentioned here that Al Stump forged Cobb letters. Does anyone have any examples they can post?

Mr. Zipper · #5 04-16-2013, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

Curious - it's been mentioned here that Al Stump forged Cobb letters. Does anyone have any examples they can post?

Here is a great signature study by Ron Keurajian with Stump examples:

http://www.autograph-club.org/autogr...utographs.html

Runscott · #6 04-16-2013, 01:44 PM

Thanks, Steve - that really clears up a lot. Another forum member had led me to believe that Stump forged actual hand-written letters, but that signature is so horrible that I'm sure they must have all been typed. Interesting content as well, and it makes sense that it came from Stump's head, rather than Cobb's.

Mr. Zipper · #7 04-16-2013, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

Thanks, Steve - that really clears up a lot. Another forum member had led me to believe that Stump forged actual hand-written letters, but that signature is so horrible that I'm sure they must have all been typed. Interesting content as well, and it makes sense that it came from Stump's head, rather than Cobb's.

If I recall correctly, there are Stump hand-written letters as well.

Runscott · #8 04-16-2013, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

If I recall correctly, there are Stump hand-written letters as well.

Those must look ghastly. I would love to see an example.

Mr. Zipper · #9 04-16-2013, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

Those must look ghastly. I would love to see an example.

It may be the forged diary pages. Specifics escape me at the moment.

Whatever it was, I recall there being distinct sections were you could see the forger tiring... Stopping to rest and regroup.... Tiring again, etc. LOL

When you look at the page as a whole, it has a very inconsistent look.

steve B · #10 04-18-2013, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

Those must look ghastly. I would love to see an example.

I think I've seen one.

Years ago maybe 1987? I was helping out at a stamp dealer in exchange for free stuff. He was getting into baseball cards and other stuff and had bought a letter from Cobb. Both sides of a sheet all handwritten in green. The first side was the usual sort of thing responding to an autograph request, "thanks for remembering me " "Ballplayer X was a great one" That sort of thing. The back side with the signature was essentailly almost entirely "Bad Cobb" running down modern players and including a couple racist remarks.

One of my big hobby regrets was not scraping up the money to buy it.

Then I found the article linked earlier, and I think maybe something Jim wrote, and that changed. I'm pretty sure it was fake now, and in a way i'm glad I didn't buy it. Part of me would still be interested as it was a rather elaborate forgery, but not for the price it was then.

Steve B

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