This is what happens when EMR team reports get ignored

[cubsfan-budman]

Your friend wants to remain anonymous so that he/she is not held accountable for their actions.

Simple as that.

If you gave your word, you ought not tell anyone, as that would be a violation of their trust.

The "anonymous EMR'r" on the other hand, should make themselves known so that they can be correctly applauded for their good works and answer for their bad choices.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

Your friend wants to remain anonymous so that he/she is not held accountable for their actions.

Simple as that.

If you gave your word, you ought not tell anyone, as that would be a violation of their trust.

The "anonymous EMR'r" on the other hand, should make themselves known so that they can be correctly applauded for their good works and answer for their bad choices.

First, I think if Ebay or that person wanted his or her name out in the public I think it would have already been out there.
As to answer for their bad choices. I have a question. Can you tell me from your own experience was anything been taken down that had any effect on you? If so could you post the link.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

The "anonymous EMR'r" on the other hand, should make themselves known so that they can be correctly applauded for their good works and answer for their bad choices.

Right, because the EMRs are the real problem with eBay. And the upaid volunteers should be exposed to harassment by criminal fake sellers and message board know-it-alls with axes to grind.

Why don't you tell us what steps you have taken to help clean up the hobby so we can applaud or criticize you as we see fit?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Right, because the EMRs are the real problem with eBay. And the upaid volunteers should be exposed to harassment by criminal fake sellers and message board know-it-alls with axes to grind.

Why don't you tell us what steps you have taken to help clean up the hobby so we can applaud or criticize you as we see fit?

+++++

[cubsfan-budman]

You know my name because its posted above each of my messages.

Applaud or criticize as you see fit.

Not sure how it's relevant to this particular discussion though.

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Right, because the EMRs are the real problem with eBay. And the upaid volunteers should be exposed to harassment by criminal fake sellers and message board know-it-alls with axes to grind.

Why don't you tell us what steps you have taken to help clean up the hobby so we can applaud or criticize you as we see fit?

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

You know my name because its posted above each of my messages.

Applaud or criticize as you see fit.

Not sure how it's relevant to this particular discussion though.

How many expert volunteers do you think eBay would get if they knew their names would be publicized?

You can pick a debatable case here or there... but the fact of the matter is that the items EMRs report the most are mass-produced forgeries being sold by sellers who are sometimes part of organized forgery rings. Rings from the west coast, a ring from Chicago, a ring from Japan and on and on. In other words -- professional criminals.

You want your name available to these people so they can call you at night? Maybe they'll mention where you live and talk about your kids photos on your wife's Facebook page.

Or maybe you'll end up on a list on some scummy anonymous smear site. Or maybe you'll be named in a groundless lawsuit that will still cost you lots of money to make go away.

You got it now?

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

How many expert volunteers do you think eBay would get if they knew their names would be publicized?

You can pick a debatable case here or there... but the fact of the matter is that the items EMRs report the most are mass-produced forgeries being sold by sellers who are sometimes part of organized forgery rings. Rings from the west coast, a ring from Chicago, a ring from Japan and on and on. In other words -- professional criminals.

You want your name available to these people so they can call you at night? Maybe they'll mention where you live and talk about your kids photos on your wife's Facebook page.

Or maybe you'll end up on a list on some scummy anonymous smear site. Or maybe you'll be named in a groundless lawsuit that will still cost you lots of money to make go away.

You got it now?

Meh. You win dude. I don't really have a dog in this fight and didn't really intend to get dragged this far into it.

I will say that I agree with the general sentiment of other folks on this site that holds that more transparency is better. I think one of the main issues with the autograph side is the perceived need for so much secrecy.

Just my opinion.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

I think one of the main issues with the autograph side is the perceived need for so much secrecy.

Some have valid reasons for hiding their secrets, but some simply don't know anything. I think that if we ever had a thread about validating Ruth autographs, where EVERYONE here participated, we'd come up with basically nothing. I know one respected person here who could only provide confusing garbage, even if he really tried, and another non-respected one who would provide similar, or worse. And there's everything in-between.

So why even bother?

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

Meh. You win dude. I don't really have a dog in this fight and didn't really intend to get dragged this far into it.

I will say that I agree with the general sentiment of other folks on this site that holds that more transparency is better. I think one of the main issues with the autograph side is the perceived need for so much secrecy.

Just my opinion.

i agree, more transparency the better, secrecy=something to hide, but he is part of team east coast, so that's all you need to know about transparency. i will call out all the boxing fakes i see, and you can publicize my name. a fake is a fake. but sometimes the fake out comes from the authenticators or experts that have no name, because no name = no accountability. That's why abc authentication company and xyz authentication company won't tell you just exactly who looked at and authenticated your autograph.

Nobody cares who the em's are. they care about emr's getting their title and responsibility through expertise, not who they know. Some of the most experienced and expert autograph people wouldn't be allowed to be an emr, while some real dodos have been let in.

collectors also want the online auction site and doing the right thing and pulling ALL fake autographs, which they wont do.

there is a nascar guy who is an emr and can get other nascar signed items pulled by his word, and he also sells a LOT of nascar signed photos himself on the same auction site with the tagline "beware of other sellers who sell nothing but fakes"

this is outrageous he is allowed to do that and be an emr. he also promises for a fact that if you buy from him, all of the items you buy will pass a certain authentication company. of course he is also the authenticator for that company.

it's all a big game people. from a to z and will be until the day these people are exposed, and their records searched and they are outed for gaming the system. anonymity=license to do what you want unfettered by any checks and balances. These companie are issuing coa's with no exemplars, we have seen it, the online auction houses protect any coa's from these companies, scratch back here and reciprocate!


SGC card grading company has been doing autographs a couple of months now and everytime i email them asking them who their authenticators are and if they will put up a webpage saying who their authenticators are, i get no response. it's been two months, they can't put up an authenticators bio page????? people are sending in autographs to them, they have no idea who is authenticating them. it's unbelievable and bizzaro world but most collectors don't care from what i have gathered. unbox, sort, tag, enter into database, authenticate, slab, double check accuracy and throw into box for 8 dollars per autograph, that's all the collector wants, the slab and the cert number.

[shelly]

So you are saying the guys are pulling down good stuff so they can sell there own. So I guess what you are saying is that people on this site that are helping Ebay are crooks?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Right, because the EMRs are the real problem with eBay. And the upaid volunteers should be exposed to harassment by criminal fake sellers and message board know-it-alls with axes to grind.

Why don't you tell us what steps you have taken to help clean up the hobby so we can applaud or criticize you as we see fit?

Well written, Mr. Zipper.

It's easy for these Message Board Know-It-Alls to criticize us because they know that good guys like us, who are pro-active, won't resort to smear campaigns, etc., to go after those that criticize us. It's part of the territory that we deal in.


And those same Message Board Know-It-Alls start whing and crying when information that we've worked to acquire and possess to fight the bad guys, isn't shared by us with them. Well that's too bad. I have reasons for not sharing certain information. Some information I share with my friends in the hobby. Other information, I don't share with anyone.

Richard, Shelly, Steve Zarelli and myself have all been smeared at one time or another and more. But we continue on. And then we have to hear from Atkatz about our "patting ourselves on the back." This coming from someone who is ZERO pro-active. Wow.

So, Atkatz, if it makes you feel good to make fun of me, or call me names, then please feel free to do so. Because the truth is, that's all you have.

And as for some of the rest you, if it makes you feel good to make fun of me, then please continue to do so, because I will post what I want, not what you want. Do you you want what I know? Then go out and get it the same way I did.

And what right do any of you have to demand that EMRs reveal who they are? They do a job that is thankless without compensation.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

So, Atkatz, if it makes you feel good to make fun of me, or call me names, then please feel free to do so.

Thanks, Chris! Don't mind if I do!

You make it so easy--such a self-righteous little man. Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough in the "Babe Ruth?" thread?
(Embarrassed enough to stay away for eleven days. Did you think we'd all forget in only eleven days what a fool you made of yourself?)

And, of course, you had absolutely nothing to do with my genuine Ruth/Gehrig ball being removed by Richard's all-powerful nameless-one.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Well written, Mr. Zipper.

It's easy for these Message Board Know-It-Alls to criticize us because they know that good guys like us, who are pro-active, won't resort to smear campaigns, etc., to go after those that criticize us. It's part of the territory that we deal in.


And those same Message Board Know-It-Alls start whing and crying when information that we've worked to acquire and possess to fight the bad guys, isn't shared by us with them. Well that's too bad. I have reasons for not sharing certain information. Some information I share with my friends in the hobby. Other information, I don't share with anyone.

Richard, Shelly, Steve Zarelli and myself have all been smeared at one time or another and more. But we continue on. And then we have to hear from Atkatz about our "patting ourselves on the back." This coming from someone who is ZERO pro-active. Wow.

So, Atkatz, if it makes you feel good to make fun of me, or call me names, then please feel free to do so. Because the truth is, that's all you have.

And as for some of the rest you, if it makes you feel good to make fun of me, then please continue to do so, because I will post what I want, not what you want. Do you you want what I know? Then go out and get it the same way I did.

And what right do any of you have to demand that EMRs reveal who they are? They do a job that is thankless without compensation.

I just don't buy that secrecy is the way to clean up the hobby. Sorry. The "Michigan forger" has been allowed to forge for decades while you guys sit back and keep his secret for him. Call me cynical, but it seems the only people who get to know your secrets are people who make money in this hobby.

Some of you knew for a long time that David's 1927 ball was a forgery and you kept it a secret.

Thanks...I guess.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I just don't buy that secrecy is the way to clean up the hobby. Sorry. The "Michigan forger" has been allowed to forge for decades while you guys sit back and keep his secret for him. Call me cynical, but it seems the only people who get to know your secrets are people who make money in this hobby.

Some of you knew for a long time that David's 1927 ball was a forgery and you kept it a secret.

Thanks...I guess.

Aside from reporting him to the FBI, which was done, what do you suggest should be done about the Michigan forger Dan??
We allowed him to forge for decades?? Really?? Is that what you think??
We allowed him?? Can anyone make a dumber statement on this board than that one??

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Aside from reporting him to the FBI, which was done, what do you suggest should be done about the Michigan forger Dan??
We allowed him to forge for decades?? Really?? Is that what you think??
We allowed him?? Can anyone make a dumber statement on this board than that one??

You could tell us what the tell is, you could tell us exactly where this guy lives without giving us his name. You could tell all kinds of things without fear of legal action against you. But you won't because you make money giving your opinion on good or bad and the bad guys keep you in business.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

You could tell us what the tell is, you could tell us exactly where this guy lives without giving us his name. You could tell all kinds of things without fear of legal action against you. But you won't because you make money giving your opinion on good or bad and the bad guys keep you in business.

Dan,
You really are thoughtless, how did you become a Mod?
For a guy who knows nothing about autographs, what are you doing in this forum? You are the CNN of this forum.
The guy lives in Michigan, if I knew his address which I don't, what good would it do you? You gonna go out and get 'em?
And I make most of my money buying and selling, authentication is not a big part of my business at all. It is minimal. I don't advertise it, except for my website, which mostly advertises my buying and selling, I have not spent a huge sum of money like PSA. My advertising budget for authentication is $0.
What activity have you ever undertaken for the good of the hobby Dan?
Tell us, we are all waiting.
The accusation that I won't tell you about the guy because I make money from bad guy activities is ludicrous and something that I would have thought would be beneath you. I guess it is not.
I did not think someone on this board could make the posts that you do, you are special Dan.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I just don't buy that secrecy is the way to clean up the hobby. Sorry. The "Michigan forger" has been allowed to forge for decades while you guys sit back and keep his secret for him. Call me cynical, but it seems the only people who get to know your secrets are people who make money in this hobby.

Some of you knew for a long time that David's 1927 ball was a forgery and you kept it a secret.

Thanks...I guess.

Wow, this coming from a guy who admittedly knows ZERO about autographs.

This is the same guy who was defending the Huggins & Scott Babe Ruth signed ticket, but yet knows ZERO about autographs.

Geez, Dan, would you have defended that Huggins & Scott Babe Ruth signed ticket if Huggins & Scott wasn't a Net54 advertiser?

And by the way, Dan, I was the one who infomed Atkatz that his "1927 Yankees" baseball was not authentic after his avatar caught my eye. Before that, I had never seen David's "1927 Yankees" baseball. Then later on Atkatz would claim that he sent it to a friend of his, who told him his ball was not authentic. Atkatz will never admit that it was me who informed him first that it was not authentic. As a matter of fact, at the time David and I were still cordial towards each other, I sent him a message that read "nice ball." I didn't have the heart to tell him it was not authentic.

Richard wrote "Aside from reporting him to the FBI, which was done, what do you suggest should be done about the Michigan forger Dan??
We allowed him to forge for decades?? Really?? Is that what you think??
We allowed him?? Can anyone make a dumber statement on this board than that one??"

We do what we can and we (the pro-active collectors against forgers and sellers of forgeries) hope for the best.

I agree with Richard when he wrote "Can anyone make a dumber statement on this board than that one??"

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

i As a matter of fact, at the time David and I were still cordial towards each other, I sent him a message that read "nice ball." I didn't have the heart to tell him it was not authentic.

What a guy!

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

And by the way, Dan, I was the one who infomed Atkatz that his "1927 Yankees" baseball was not authentic after his avatar caught my eye.

No Chris, it was Richard. And not out of the kindness of his heart, or the desire to protect the integrity of the hobby, either. It was a pure act of spite.

On Halloween two years ago Richard posted another of his typical cryptic threads--this one concerning a forger he called "Johnny F." I criticized him for once again (and again, and again, and again) posting just enough to show us how much he himself knows, but not enough to be useful to anyone. He could, for the board's enlightenment, have posted examples of this forger's work, but, to quote the late, great, John Belushi, "Nooooooo."

Throwing a little tantrum at my audacity in criticizing the master, Richard told me that I should be very familiar with Johnny F's work, since I was so "close to it." On further questioning, he revealed his long-held secret--the ball was fake--and informed me that another on the board agreed. (Ain't that Richard all the way? Always backing up his statements by referring to unnamed board members.) At that point, Chris posted that the unnamed person was him.

Sometimes--when Chris or Richard post something priest-like--I say to myself 'Let it be. Don't bother posting a response--it ain't worth another argument.' In this case, however, I'm extremely glad I pissed Richard off--it led to the removal from my collection of a significant forgery.

That might never have happened had I stayed in Richard's good graces.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

No Chris, it was Richard. And not out of the kindness of his heart, or the desire to protect the integrity of the hobby, either. It was a pure act of spite.

On Halloween two years ago Richard posted another of his typical cryptic threads--this one concerning a forger he called "Johnny F." I criticized him for once again (and again, and again, and again) posting just enough to show us how much he himself knows, but not enough to be useful to anyone. He could, for the board's enlightenment, have posted examples of this forger's work, but, to quote the late, great, John Belushi, "Nooooooo."

Throwing a little tantrum at my audacity in criticizing the master, Richard told me that I should be very familiar with Johnny F's work, since I was so "close to it." On further questioning, he revealed his long-held secret--the ball was fake--and informed me that another on the board agreed. (Ain't that Richard all the way? Always backing up his statements by referring to unnamed board members.) At that point, Chris posted that the unnamed person was him.

Sometimes--when Chris or Richard post something priest-like--I say to myself 'Let it be. Don't bother posting a response--it ain't worth another argument.' In this case, however, I'm extremely glad I pissed Richard off--it led to the removal from my collection of a significant forgery.

That might never have happened had I stayed in Richard's good graces.

It was me, David.

It was me who asked Richard to take a closer look at the photos of your "1927 Yankees" baseball. It was then, that Richard agreed the sigs were not authentic.

I was the first one on this board that was suspicious of those autographs after something caught my eye about your avatar.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Wow, this coming from a guy who admittedly knows ZERO about autographs.

This is the same guy who was defending the Huggins & Scott Babe Ruth signed ticket, but yet knows ZERO about autographs.

Chris - Dan, myself and others, defended the process for calling out a forgery, not the signed ticket itself. You know this, so stop deflecting. If you have something to say either say it, or go back into hiding. This has gotten old.

[Big Dave]

+1

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Chris - Dan, myself and others, defended the process for calling out a forgery, not the signed ticket itself. You know this, so stop deflecting. If you have something to say either say it, or go back into hiding. This has gotten old.

agreed.


we were concerned about the PROCESS of calling it a fake and impugning an auction house, and two authentication firms without showing any proof.

it might be fake, it might be real, that wasn't the point. and of course everyone else knows ZERO about autographs, but the guy who knows 100 won't say what he knows about the ruth?