Who was better, who would you take, Joe DiMaggio or Ted Williams?

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

Having never seen either play and not going strictly by stats I would choose DiMaggio for his championship pedigree, respected as a teammate, beloved by the fans and the media. Ted was from all reports, surly, unapproachable and a general douche to everyone. I really think the off field stuff should be taken into account, not just record book stuff.
Just my opinion, take it or leave it.

I think you have this backwards. The Dago was a sonofabitch to everyone who didn't kiss his royal arse. If that team wasn't stacked, they would have thrown him overboard. Would you want to share a clubhouse with a guy who wouldn't sign a baseball for your kid?? There are players who talked to someone DiMag didn't like, so he gave them the silent treatment for the rest of their life!
TSW was loud, obnoxious, and decidedly anti-establishment, but I don't recall hearing his teammates say they wouldn't want him on the team. Sure, Joe's teammates wouldn't say that, either, but that's because they enjoyed those WS checks.


While we're on the topic, can someone explain to me how "DiMaggio never had to dive for a ball" is a positive thing. Sure, I understand positioning and speed, but I'm supposed to believe that a ball never dropped just out of his reach? Think of all those fantastic diving plays Jim Edmonds used to make; are you telling me Joe would've gotten those without diving just because of his "positioning"??

TSW, for the sheer offense he provided, plus he might actually make you laugh in the dugout.

Ken

[mr2686]

I don't think you could go wrong with either. Dimaggio lost 3 years to Military service in his prime plus retired at 36, so it's not hard to imagine him getting 500 hr's without that...yes yes, plus he bagged Marilyn and I shook his hand, so I have that connection. As for Williams, he lost all or parts of 5 years to military service (and he was frickin' John Wayne in real life) so kudo's to him, and it's very easy to imagine him making a serious run at Ruth's HR record without that.

[sbfinley]

You can't really lose if you have the second pick in this draft. Personally I'd take Joe D, but I have a personal connection to him through my grandfather.

[MW1]

Lifetime WAR -- http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...t_career.shtml

Williams #11
Dimaggio #41


Single-season WAR -- http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...t_season.shtml

Williams top 3: #21, #25, #25 (tie)
Dimaggio top 3: #116, #226, #245

Since WAR includes both offensive and defensive statistics, it would seem that Williams, by a significant margin, was the superior player.

[TUM301]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I think you have this backwards. The Dago was a sonofabitch to everyone who didn't kiss his royal arse. If that team wasn't stacked, they would have thrown him overboard. Would you want to share a clubhouse with a guy who wouldn't sign a baseball for your kid?? There are players who talked to someone DiMag didn't like, so he gave them the silent treatment for the rest of their life!
TSW was loud, obnoxious, and decidedly anti-establishment, but I don't recall hearing his teammates say they wouldn't want him on the team. Sure, Joe's teammates wouldn't say that, either, but that's because they enjoyed those WS checks.


While we're on the topic, can someone explain to me how "DiMaggio never had to dive for a ball" is a positive thing. Sure, I understand positioning and speed, but I'm supposed to believe that a ball never dropped just out of his reach? Think of all those fantastic diving plays Jim Edmonds used to make; are you telling me Joe would've gotten those without diving just because of his "positioning"??

TSW, for the sheer offense he provided, plus he might actually make you laugh in the dugout.

Ken

After reading books on both, have to agree with much of this statement. Ted had the bad rep, yes always at war with the "Knights of the Keyboards" and Dimaggio was untouchable in NYC. After learning more about both men I too learned I`d had Ted all wrong. When maybe the best hitter of all time says, the proudest moment of my life was the time I spent flying missions in service of my country, it makes a sports fan take notice. Lastly, my father who saw both and knew his baseball always told me "hands down Williams" really sealed the deal for me. As mentioned by a previous poster, After Ruth Stan the Man has to be in this equation. My 2 cents..

[sycks22]

Teddy ballgame. Fun fact: during his '41 campaign he obviously hit .406 in 606 plate appearances, nobody talks about how he only struck out only 27 times.

[mr2686]

Same year Dimaggio had 622 plate appearances and only 13 strikeouts

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by mr2686

Same year Dimaggio had 622 plate appearances and only 13 strikeouts

They were both incredibly efficient hitters, I don't think that can be denied by anybody.

Ted walked about 2-3 times more often then Joe D. however, and got on base at a clip of about 80+ percentage points higher.

One of the things that makes Ted so amazing. Most low strikeout guys, don't walk a lot either. They are so afraid of striking out, they will swing and hit pitches out of the zone just to make contact. Ted never swung at anything he didn't think was a strike, and he was almost always right, according to the Umps anyways.

Ted has a career walk to strikeout ratio of almost 3 to 1. Joe D. is a little better then 2 to 1, though with a lot more "contact" outs. Joe has almost as many HR's as strikeouts.

Both are pretty amazing.

[mr2686]

I think the only bad thing I can say about Ted is that he wouldn't expand his strike zone to take advantage of the Williams shift (I believe he even mentioned it later in life). If he had, he probably could have hit .600,

[ullmandds]

Ted was one of the best hitters ever...maybe the best...would have given the babe's hr record a run if he hadn't lost so many years to the war effort. JOe was smooth...and played for the yankees...Ted was the better ballplayer...and I too...am a yankees fan!!

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by mr2686

Same year Dimaggio had 622 plate appearances and only 13 strikeouts

And he hit 50 points lower than Ted!

Ken

[mr2686]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

And he hit 50 points lower than Ted!

Ken

and hit in 56 straight games.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by mr2686

and hit in 56 straight games.

And still didn't get as many hits as Cecil Travis!

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by sycks22

Teddy ballgame. Fun fact: during his '41 campaign he obviously hit .406 in 606 plate appearances, nobody talks about how he only struck out only 27 times.

Since you are on the topic of strikeouts, additional facts: in 1941 when Joe D. hit in 56 straight games he only struck out an incredible 13 times! Over his career, Joe D. struck out only 369 times in 6,821 official at bats (AB) for an amazing "1 strikeout per 18 AB" (unheard of for a power hitter!). Ted Williams struck out 709 times in 7,706 lifetime AB for an average of "1 strikeout per 11 AB" (also very impressive). Willie Mays always said he never saw a player swing the bat so consistently hard as Joltin Joe without missing many pitches.

Regarding Joe D. vs. Teddy Ballgame it just may be too close to call. While Ted was certainly the premier hitter, Joe D. was the classic "5 tool" player, and also a great hitter during his peak years. You also have to remember how many balls DiMaggio hit into "Death Valley" between the 407 and 457 sign that were simple fly ball outs. My dad told me a story about a doubleheader he attended at Yankee Stadium where DiMaggio hit 4 home runs and flied out 3 other times on or near the warning track in left-center field. He would have hit 7 home runs in any other ballpark! At peak value I would take DiMaggio because of his additional skillsets, but I honestly feel it's a coin toss.

Great Debate!
Joe T.