1940s Homestead Grays Pennant?

[Duluth Eskimo]

Found in the 80's, but my opinion is that they are original. New old stock.

[packs]

I was watching the Black Yankees pennant. Really nice pick up.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Found in the 80's, but my opinion is that they are original. New old stock.

Thanks again.....If you ever need to know anything about an obscure pre-war type card, that almost no one cares about, I can probably help.

[jerseygary]

There is also a Brooklyn Bushwicks pennant around which uses the same stadium illustration as the Elite Giants and Black Yankees. The Bushwicks were a semi-pro team that played many games against the Negro league teams. While I have seen the black teams in both well-used and minty condition like stated above, I have only seen well-used versions of the Bushwicks which makes me think they weren't part of the "find" you're talking about. Somewhere I've seen a period photograph of a Negro league player and a Homestead Grays pennant is pinned to a wall behind him, so at least that one style was produced back in the 1940's. When I lived in Baltimore in the late 1980's I visited a collector who had an Elite Giants pennant as shown. This was before the popularity of the Negro leagues so I always assumed these were the real deal. I know they've been reprinted since, but you can usually tell they are modern-made by the difference in the typography when compared to a real one.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by jerseygary

I know they've been reprinted since, but you can usually tell they are modern-made by the difference in the typography when compared to a real one.

Just responding to this.

[jerseygary]

In the original you can see how the typography of the "HOMESTEAD" is hand-drawn to get smaller as it narrows into the tail of the pennant. Before computers this was drawn by hand and as such it looks much more natural. In the bad copy look at how the "HOMESTEAD" is un-naturally pushed and jammed into a narrower area. It lacks the tastefulness of the original and this is because the type was manipulated in a computer program which lacks the soul that a typographer gives it by his own hand. This is especially apparent in the "S". Another give away is the typeface used which is more of a modern style, something a pennant company artist probably would not have used back in the 1940's. A graphic artist back then would have used various "sign painter" typefaces instead of a "print" typeface which is what the bad copy uses. Other give-away is the illustration, on the copy it is a little cruder and thicker than the original as can be seen in the 2 shadow lines below the batter and catcher.

I have seen more accurate copies of these pennants as well which is probably just a direct copy of the original art. Seem to remember these being around in the mid-1990's.

I have been trying to date them since I first saw them in the 1980's, best I can come is 1943-45 due to the inclusion of the Cincinnati Clowns pennant of the same style. The Clowns played out of Cincinnati during the 1943-45 seasons, the last 2 they were known also as the Indianapolis Clowns.

[Hankphenom]

I'm certainly no expert in the details of pennant manufacturing, and if I'd had to choose between them I would have gotten it dead wrong. The original looks to my eyes considerably "cheesier" than the copy, which just presents nicer in appearance. Any clue as to who made the copy? Was it Mitchell and Ness? Whoever it was did a nice job, again only as my eyes judge them side by side.

[perezfan]

If you could see both pennants up-close and touch/feel them, you would see the difference immediately. The aged vintage felt is different in make-up and texture, as compared to more modern felt.

The tassels are also different... usually the newer repros have tassels that are too thick/too big, in proportion to the body of the pennant.

Another key to look for is cracking/puckering of the painted graphics, which is a natural occurrence, and happens about 90% of the time.

I don't think Mitchell & Ness did the repros of these Negro League Pennants. Most of the M & N reproductions feature a crushed velvet type of graphics, as opposed to application of actual paint.