Who was better, who would you take, Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays?

MattyC · #1 04-25-2013, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolemmings

That's hilarious. You mean the series where Mays hit .250 with no HR and 1 RBI? Wow, epic.

True Mantle stunk in that series. But whose team won? Mays played in 4 World Series and hit zero home runs with 6 RBI, batting under .240. Mantle played in 3 World Series with no home runs; of course he also played in 9 others with 18 Home Runs and 40 RBI . Seven World's Championships to 1, and 12 World Series to 4. We're supposed to focus on what actually happened and not what could have, right? Scoreboard.

A previous poster correctly noted that Mantle's peak years--12 seasons-were notably better than Mays. That sample size is large enough for me, and other than possibly Dimaggio's 1937 season, I do not believe any CF could match Mickey's 1956 campaign. I would like to hear from those who played against both, especially pitchers. I doubt it would be close. Mantle was pitched very carefully, and walked more than 100 times in 10 seasons, including his broken down final two. Mays walked 100 times or more exactly once in 22 years.

I'm with this guy. Mays has better career totals, yes-- but his peak wasn't on Mantle's level. I'd take peak and postseason performance over longevity, because you can win titles with peaks as high as Mantle's were, and with WS performances like that. And winning titles is what you play for.

How about looking at their 162 game averages? They are virtually deadlocked in this regard, with numbers so similar it is almost eerie-- except Mantle has a pretty substantial lead in OBP, BB, OPS(+).

itjclarke · #2 04-25-2013, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattyC

I'm with this guy. Mays has better career totals, yes-- but his peak wasn't on Mantle's level. I'd take peak and postseason performance over longevity, because you can win titles with peaks as high as Mantle's were, and with WS performances like that. And winning titles is what you play for.

How about looking at their 162 game averages? They are virtually deadlocked in this regard, with numbers so similar it is almost eerie-- except Mantle has a pretty substantial lead in OBP, BB, OPS(+).

I went onto Baseball Reference and averaged out what I thought to be each players' peak years, a relatively short 8 season window (1955-1962) for Mantle and a longer 12 season (1954-1965) window for Mays. Their numbers are nearly dead on.

HR R RBI AVE. SB OBP SLUG
40 118 109 .318 22 .392 .605 -- Mays
40 119 101 .314 14 .445 .616 -- Mantle

You can say Mantle had a slight edge because he got on base more often, but his peak is not "notably better" (responding to quote that's quoted in above post)... and Mays did more once he got on base, averaging 8 more steals per year. Just for fun, if you count an SB as a total base (a steal is just as valuable as a double), it would raise his OPS by more than 10 points. Then shift to defense and take a look at outfield assists during their respective peak years. Mantle had highs of 11 and 10 assists, which is respectable, but Mays had highs of 23, 17, 15, 14, 13, 12 and 11 during his peak seasons. His 5th tool definitely came in handy... and I'm guessing saved several runs.

I think had Mays played in 12 WS, he might have compiled more respectable postseason numbers. However, during his peak years the NL was absolutely LOADED. The Giants were always good, but had to content yearly with the Dodgers, Cards, Braves among others, while the Yankees were unparallelled in the AL during Mantle's prime. As is, Mays played in 4 series and batted .247... as compared to Mantle's .257 (give me Ruth or Reggie over both of them

).

Regardless it is a very very close call.

SteveMitchell · #3 04-25-2013, 08:36 PM

Excellence and longevity wins for me! If I were a club owner or general manager, I'd take the guy who was outstanding for the longest period. In this debate, it would clearly be Willie Mays. In another posting, Ted Williams (over Joe DiMaggio).

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