Were they the best......

Peter_Spaeth · #1 05-24-2013, 12:07 PM

How can anyone seriously say Bonds was not one of the best of his time?

HRBAKER · #2 05-24-2013, 12:09 PM

I didn't say that, he was.

Cardboard Junkie · #3 05-24-2013, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How can anyone seriously say Bonds was not one of the best of his time?

Because of performance enhancing drugs?

yanksfan09 · #4 05-24-2013, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

Because of performance enhancing drugs?

Obviously I can't ignore his steroid use. I only look at his pre 1999 numbers as legitimate. The story goes after 1998 when he saw all the attention that McGwire and Sosa got, he told other players that he was going to try it. I don't know exactly the words used but that's the basic message he said from what I heard and from 1999 on he was juiced up.....as much or more than anyone else!

Even so, when only comparing him to others of his time, his pre 1999 numbers are still fantastic in their own right, just not top 5 player immortal all time numbers!

Peter_Spaeth · #5 05-24-2013, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

Because of performance enhancing drugs?

Yeah before drugs he was just a three time MVP winner, perennial all star and Gold Glove winner, and probably the best all around player in the game. Next?

HRBAKER · #6 05-24-2013, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yeah before drugs he was just a three time MVP winner, perennial all star and Gold Glove winner, and probably the best all around player in the game. Next?

Which makes it all the more puzzling why he felt like he needed to cheat

EvilKing00 · #7 05-24-2013, 12:48 PM

IMO Bonds and Clemens are sure fire HOF easy call, they have nothing to do with my question really, more of a hook and a guide for the real question.

Now IMO the best stats of these 5 that I posted are Sheffields, (no need to post bonds numbers they are sick) IMO its not even close. And hes got the lowest BY FAR votes, even though most people voted for bonds and Clemens who are �more� steroid type guys.

Jeter and Molitor have almost exactly the same stats � scary, right Yankee fans.

Just funny how people perceive Sheffield, the guy was awesome. And funny how people sometimes put other players higher up that what they are.

1 - Gary Sheffield � 509 HR, .292 BA, 253 SB, .393 OBP

2 � Ripkin � 431 HR, .276 BA, .340 OBP

3 � Jeter � 255 HR, 313 BA, 348 SB, .382 OBP

4 � molitor � 234 HR, .306 BA, 504 SB, .369 OBP

5 � Berkman � 363 HR, .296 BA, .409 OBP

barrysloate · #8 05-24-2013, 12:50 PM

I'm starting to think that maybe none of them is as good as Miguel Cabrera. Does anyone else but me think he may win back-to-back Triple Crowns?

Eric72 · #9 05-24-2013, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I'm starting to think that maybe none of them is as good as Miguel Cabrera. Does anyone else but me think he may win back-to-back Triple Crowns?

Hi Barry,

Cabrera pulling off that nearly unthinkable feat is certainly within the realm of possibilty and I think he may actually accomplish it.

His current Triple Crown stats:

.391 BA (1st - by a mile)
14 HR (2nd - and only one off the leader)
55 RBI (1st - with a comfortable lead)

Hope all is well.

Best Regards,

Eric

rainier2004 · #10 05-24-2013, 01:54 PM

I think theres a shot. The 2 main factors being how big of a lead can he get with this current hot streak and who will challenge him in HRs later in the season. Cabrera does sacrifice power for contact, especially with 2 strikes resulting in lots of solid hitting and few les HRs which is great. He is an amazing hitter, the best I have seen in Detroit in my 29 years of memory. He adjusts to pitchers, knows how to make contact, drives the ball the other day, hits off-speed and hits for clutch. He hits over .500 BA w/ runners in scoring position this year and has been for awhile now.

Cabrera typically has sub-standard at-bats earlier in the year and owns the month of September in the past few years. He has a nice RBI lead and its grown with Jackson outta the line-up. I am glad he is a Tiger and definitely think he can repeat as triple crown...and repeat MVP!

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I'm starting to think that maybe none of them is as good as Miguel Cabrera. Does anyone else but me think he may win back-to-back Triple Crowns?

Jlighter · #11 05-24-2013, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I'm starting to think that maybe none of them is as good as Miguel Cabrera. Does anyone else but me think he may win back-to-back Triple Crowns?

He can do the .avg and RBI, I'm hesitant on HRs though. Take away his 3 HR game against the Rangers and he ranks 11th.

We could make a pool on will he, won't he.

Peter_Spaeth · #12 05-24-2013, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

IMO Bonds and Clemens are sure fire HOF easy call, they have nothing to do with my question really, more of a hook and a guide for the real question.

Now IMO the best stats of these 5 that I posted are Sheffields, (no need to post bonds numbers they are sick) IMO its not even close. And hes got the lowest BY FAR votes, even though most people voted for bonds and Clemens who are �more� steroid type guys.

Jeter and Molitor have almost exactly the same stats � scary, right Yankee fans.

Just funny how people perceive Sheffield, the guy was awesome. And funny how people sometimes put other players higher up that what they are.

1 - Gary Sheffield � 509 HR, .292 BA, 253 SB, .393 OBP

2 � Ripkin � 431 HR, .276 BA, .340 OBP

3 � Jeter � 255 HR, 313 BA, 348 SB, .382 OBP

4 � molitor � 234 HR, .306 BA, 504 SB, .369 OBP

5 � Berkman � 363 HR, .296 BA, .409 OBP

Can't compare Ripken and Jeter to an outfielder. And Sheffield's stats were longevity stats, he was not consistently among the best players in the game, no MVPs etc. And he bounced around from one team to the next.

HRBAKER · #13 05-24-2013, 01:28 PM

So you are already regarded as the best all round player in baseball with multiple MVPs, and you get so jealous of two one-dimensional players that you make a decision that will forever put a stench on your career. That's bright.

EvilKing00 · #14 05-24-2013, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Can't compare Ripken and Jeter to an outfielder. And Sheffield's stats were longevity stats, he was not consistently among the best players in the game, no MVPs etc. And he bounced around from one team to the next.

OK lets say:

robin yount: 251 HR, 285 BA, 271 SB, 342 OBP - He won an MVP as a SS and then another in the OF.

I wasnt trying to compare him to an OF, but rather a certin type of hitter, other SS nomar, miguel tejada (MVP), or Arod(MVP), Hanily, Toulo I could name many others.

The main point was how people look at Sheffield and place him as not one of the best of his time and how people place Jeter as one of the best of his time. but hes got a life time 292 average with over 500 hr and over 250 sb and almost 400 OBP.

Compiled? he hit 290-300 every year . He hit at least 20 HR every year but 1 that he got at least 400 AB, which was his 2ed to last year when he hit 19.

As far as the MVP's yes Sheff never won an MVP, Ripkin won 2 MVPs, yount won 2 (1 as a ss), tejada won 1, arod 1 as a ss (2 more at 3b)
and just like sheff Jeter won 0 as well.

Peter_Spaeth · #15 05-24-2013, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Which makes it all the more puzzling why he felt like he needed to cheat

He was jealous of McGwire and Sosa, felt that they were getting all the attention while he was clearly the superior player.

HOF Auto Rookies · #16 05-24-2013, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He was jealous of McGwire and Sosa, felt that they were getting all the attention while he was clearly the superior player.

Couldn't have said it better myself

HRBAKER · #17 05-24-2013, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He was jealous of McGwire and Sosa, felt that they were getting all the attention while he was clearly the superior player.

Well that's certainly a good reason.

auggiedoggy · #18 05-24-2013, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How can anyone seriously say Bonds was not one of the best of his time?

Glad you asked.

He was a druggie.
Hope this helps.

Next ...

View Poll Results: Were these guys the best of their time or not
Barry Bonds was one of the best of his time	73	65.18%
Barry bonds was NOT one of the best of his time	20	17.86%
Roger Clemens was one of the best of his time	80	71.43%
Roger Clemens was NOT one of the best of his time	14	12.50%
Gary sheffield was one of the best of his time	16	14.29%
Gary sheffield was NOT one of the best of his time	71	63.39%
derek jeter was one of the best of his time	79	70.54%
derek jeter was NOT one of the best of his time	19	16.96%
cal ripken jr was one of the best of his time	74	66.07%
cal ripken jr was NOT one of the best of his time	26	23.21%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 112. You may not vote on this poll