National Locations Announced Through 2019

BruceWayne · #1 06-21-2013, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travrosty

They need to spruce it up and give people new reasons to go.

comicon is as popular as ever.

Hey Travis,

Very funny about your proposed locations but I wanted to focus on this part of your quote. I agree and I have a theory in this regard. When I go to the National I can't help but notice there are very few young people/kids who attend. I am not saying there are NO kids, just that there are much less than one would expect at a National Convention of this nature.

I think one of the reasons for this is that the younger generation is growing up in a world completely different than ours. Their world is full of interaction (video games, etc) and the idea of looking at static images on pieces of cardboard is not very attractive to them. In fact, I gave my son, who is now 16, a number of 1960s and 1970s baseball cards of star players (Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Pete Rose, etc) when he was younger and he said "Thanks Dad, that's really nice." However, that night the cards went into his dresser drawer and I don't think he ever looked at them again. I simply don't think trading cards grab the imagination of the youth like it did in our day.

With that said, I think one thing that would truly increase the attendance at our conventions is to offer more interactive components for the youth. I still don't understand why we couldn't have companies like EA Sports and others there with interactive sports related games. I understand our industry is about nostalgia but I don't think we will truly reach our youth with this hobby unless we offer them more than what we are now. That's not to say things like "case breaks" are not appealing to some of the younger people who like to rip wax but I really think the interactive nature of the Comic Con is one of the reasons it is so popular and always draws huge numbers of people.

Just my thoughts.

HaloFan · #2 06-21-2013, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceWayne

Hey Travis,

Very funny about your proposed locations but I wanted to focus on this part of your quote. I agree and I have a theory in this regard. When I go to the National I can't help but notice there are very few young people/kids who attend. I am not saying there are NO kids, just that there are much less than one would expect at a National Convention of this nature.

I think one of the reasons for this is that the younger generation is growing up in a world completely different than ours. Their world is full of interaction (video games, etc) and the idea of looking at static images on pieces of cardboard is not very attractive to them. In fact, I gave my son, who is now 16, a number of 1960s and 1970s baseball cards of star players (Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Pete Rose, etc) when he was younger and he said "Thanks Dad, that's really nice." However, that night the cards went into his dresser drawer and I don't think he ever looked at them again. I simply don't think trading cards grab the imagination of the youth like it did in our day.

With that said, I think one thing that would truly increase the attendance at our conventions is to offer more interactive components for the youth. I still don't understand why we couldn't have companies like EA Sports and others there with interactive sports related games. I understand our industry is about nostalgia but I don't think we will truly reach our youth with this hobby unless we offer them more than what we are now. That's not to say things like "case breaks" are not appealing to some of the younger people who like to rip wax but I really think the interactive nature of the Comic Con is one of the reasons it is so popular and always draws huge numbers of people.

Just my thoughts.

I've read on blogs complaining that the National is mostly a vintage, high-dollar card affair and there is limited emphasis on new cards.

http://www.sportscardsuncensored.com...oming-extinct/

I'd guess 70% of the tables at the National are devoted to older stuff. Kids would be mostly drawn to newer stuff. Mike Trout excites them more than Mickey Mantle because his cards are more obtainable than the Mick in their mind and they can see/relate to him better.

Our hobby is vast and yes there is $$$ to be made, but the National doesn't seem to serve the diversity of the field that it could. I haven't got a clue as to how to change it, but that is what I see.

Another issue with the National requirements that puzzles me is their requirement for 18,000 sq. feet minimum(or whatever it is). The National only has about 500-700 tables--far from the 1000 tables there were 20 years ago. Maybe the committee has priced themselves out by having too many strict requirements??? Other events are held at the convention centers and they probably have to deal with the same requirements as the National committee, so it's somewhat of a headscratcher as to why the committee would limit itself to mostly Chicago and Cleveland.

Craig H.

Leon · #3 06-21-2013, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaloFan

I've read on blogs complaining that the National is mostly a vintage, high-dollar card affair and there is limited emphasis on new cards.

http://www.sportscardsuncensored.com...oming-extinct/

I'd guess 70% of the tables at the National are devoted to older stuff. Kids would be mostly drawn to newer stuff. Mike Trout excites them more than Mickey Mantle because his cards are more obtainable than the Mick in their mind and they can see/relate to him better.

Our hobby is vast and yes there is $$$ to be made, but the National doesn't seem to serve the diversity of the field that it could. I haven't got a clue as to how to change it, but that is what I see.

Another issue with the National requirements that puzzles me is their requirement for 18,000 sq. feet minimum(or whatever it is). The National only has about 500-700 tables--far from the 1000 tables there were 20 years ago. Maybe the committee has priced themselves out by having too many strict requirements??? Other events are held at the convention centers and they probably have to deal with the same requirements as the National committee, so it's somewhat of a headscratcher as to why the committee would limit itself to mostly Chicago and Cleveland.

Craig H.

Not sure where you get your info but it's so far off I don't know where to start? First of all....18000 square feet? really.....how about almost exactly 20x that amount to hold a National. Minimum is about 325,000+ square feet. Then, 500-700 tables....well, how about 1100-1200, but who's counting? Strict requirements, no not really. It's called capitalism and they do it as a profit center, not as a benevolence event. No head scratcher at all if you have all of the correct information. And as far a catering to young folks, well, the last 12 of them I have been to had quite a few young folks but not enough. I actually think the hobby, with the internet the way it is, has grown over the last 30 yrs. It has made everyone be able to collect on so much more of a wide scale, and brought everyone together, I think it is more healthy than ever. If anyone doesn't think so just look at auction prices .....Just my view, nothing personal.....

Rich Klein · #4 06-21-2013, 12:52 PM

These shows are no where near being Kid orented, even if the yougsters come and get free admission with Daddy or Mommy -- the parent has already shlled out $25 for admission plus any fees for parking (Chicago is cheap if you use the MTA station at about $5) and any food, etc.

We should ask for lower admission fees, at some point we might eliminate any walk ups at that price.

Now free is too cheap, but IMHO only, a $10 admission charge is sufficient but that is just me

Rich

Leon · #5 06-21-2013, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

These shows are no where near being Kid orented, even if the yougsters come and get free admission with Daddy or Mommy -- the parent has already shlled out $25 for admission plus any fees for parking (Chicago is cheap if you use the MTA station at about $5) and any food, etc.

We should ask for lower admission fees, at some point we might eliminate any walk ups at that price.

Now free is too cheap, but IMHO only, a $10 admission charge is sufficient but that is just me

Rich

I agree as I said "well, the last 12 of them I have been to had quite a few young folks but not enough"

As for the admission cost I agree too, However, we aren't the ones incurring the expenses so we don't know exactly what they are and what it takes to be profitable.

ScottFandango · #6 06-21-2013, 01:09 PM

they need to add a batting cage and pitching speed cage to give the kids something PHYSICAL to do, then they have fun...

i have thrown out my arm plenty of times at yankee stadium trying to get to 90MPH in the pitching cage (smartly placed by the booze section)...

Rich Klein · #7 06-21-2013, 02:20 PM

Just as with the NY Yankees, at some point the admission charge will end up scaring away anyone but the most "corporate" types.

The only problem iwth $25 is that it scares away peoiple from just shwing up and at some point the nice families, such as we have who come to shows like the Craig Ranch McKinney, TX show (last month was an exception as we were very slow in terms of people) prefer the free admission.

Now the National can not and should not be free, but perhaps a lower admission cost might actually bring in some new people to attend. If I have $100 to send and $35 or so is spent on parking and admssion I only have $65 left for the vendors.

If I know to park at the MTA (or even take the MTA) and then spend $10 to attend - I have $85 to spend with the vendors. Plus, and I do not know this for sure, but I suspect in this case, lower admission costs would bring in more people.

What this does, is ask more people to buy badges up front.

Just my 1cent (because Leon's quarter is more valuable) worth

Rich

Leon · #8 06-21-2013, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

they need to add a batting cage and pitching speed cage to give the kids something PHYSICAL to do, then they have fun...

i have thrown out my arm plenty of times at yankee stadium trying to get to 90MPH in the pitching cage (smartly placed by the booze section)...

There have been throwing cages with pitching radar machines at some of the Nationals. I know because I did it once. I was in tennis shoes, flat ground and am an old man...and think I threw 68 MPH...which for the folks around me doing it, it was pretty good.

BruceWayne · #9 06-21-2013, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

they need to add a batting cage and pitching speed cage to give the kids something PHYSICAL to do, then they have fun...

I agree Scott. I think if you look at the MLB All-Star FanFest and the NFL Experience at the Super Bowl it will validate that statement.

I remember going to the National in St. Louis back in the '90s and they had a goal post where you could actually try to kick field goals. I think I was good from up to about 12 yards. I was pretty proud of myself

itjclarke · #10 06-22-2013, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottFandango

i have thrown out my arm plenty of times at yankee stadium trying to get to 90MPH in the pitching cage (smartly placed by the booze section)...

Can you really approach 90 MPH?? If so, WOW and hats off to you.

HaloFan · #11 06-21-2013, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

Not sure where you get your info but it's so far off I don't know where to start? First of all....18000 square feet? really.....how about almost exactly 20x that amount to hold a National. Minimum is about 325,000+ square feet. Then, 500-700 tables....well, how about 1100-1200, but who's counting? Strict requirements, no not really. It's called capitalism and they do it as a profit center, not as a benevolence event. No head scratcher at all if you have all of the correct information. And as far a catering to young folks, well, the last 12 of them I have been to had quite a few young folks but not enough. I actually think the hobby, with the internet the way it is, has grown over the last 30 yrs. It has made everyone be able to collect on so much more of a wide scale, and brought everyone together, I think it is more healthy than ever. If anyone doesn't think so just look at auction prices .....Just my view, nothing personal.....

Leon,

I never claimed I knew the specifics. I pulled those figures out of my butt. You are right there are 350,000 sq ft of space. But the website clearly states there are only 600 dealers and corporate displays. There used to be 1000. (I should have meant dealers not tables). The point was that the hobby seems to have consolidated somewhat(fewer dealers, fewer collectors, less $$$ available than 20 years' ago) yet the expectations have gotten larger???

http://nsccshow.com/show_details.shtml

I just think it's odd that the promoters make it seem like the only place viable to have a convention is in Chicago or Cleveland when other industries under the same circumstances regularly book events in other cities. This is largely what everyone has been complaining about--not that it is easy or cheap to set these things up.

The details as to why the National stays in those cities has been discussed before yet it appears people are not satisfied with the answers. I agree with you in that I do not really care where it is hosted. I've accepted the reasons as it is but apparently a lot of people do not feel that way.

Craig H.

Hankphenom · #12 06-21-2013, 04:36 PM

I would think your two options as a promoter would be to move it around a lot, or not at all. The first to take advantage of a different local and regional collector base each year, the second to just lock it in with a good deal from the convention center based on consistency, and for simplicity of planning for attendees. Why the swing between Chicago and Cleveland, which aren't that far apart anyway? And I don't get Atlantic City at all.

glynparson · #13 06-21-2013, 07:11 PM

understand the choice of Cleveland all these times Cleveland has always SUCKED for me. sorry thats as nice as i can put it. I do not really set up much anymore and will almost definitely not be setting up in Cleveland. Oh well good thing I don't do this for a living anymore. I actually lost money in Cleveland one year at a national? that is hard to do. Terrible venue not much in local collectors, poor choice for such frequent visits. Must be cheap so the board can pocket more money for themselves because Ive heard many similar complaints over the years.

Jewish-collector · #14 06-21-2013, 07:35 PM

They have complex issues when selecting a city for the National. The venue availability, minimum size venue, union issues, costs, etc,...

They have decreased the number of dealer tables over the last few years to be able to select smaller venues in new cities (ie Boston) in future years, but it appears they've gone back to their rotation of Cleveland and Chicago. And, I don't know what the reason was for choosing Atlantic City.

With all due respect to Glyn (Hi Glyn !!!) and others, I happen to really like Cleveland. For me, it's only a 6 hour drive, driving & parking at the expo center is trivial and I enjoy the downtown area at night.

Hankphenom · #15 06-21-2013, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glynparson

understand the choice of Cleveland all these times Cleveland has always SUCKED for me. sorry thats as nice as i can put it. I do not really set up much anymore and will almost definitely not be setting up in Cleveland. Oh well good thing I don't do this for a living anymore. I actually lost money in Cleveland one year at a national? that is hard to do. Terrible venue not much in local collectors, poor choice for such frequent visits. Must be cheap so the board can pocket more money for themselves because Ive heard many similar complaints over the years.

I'll never forget 2007 in Cleveland, when we were forced to use the 2-wheel configuration of our handtruck because the union, who would motor your stuff out for $250, wouldn't allow 4 wheels on the ground. So we hauled maybe eight loads during a monsoon through the parking lot while the union guys sat on their carts with nothing to do. That really made me want to come back to Cleveland.

T205 GB · #16 06-26-2013, 11:02 AM

Why schedule the Nationals at the same time every yr? Can't a month later or so work to place us at a venue that would draw a larger crowd?? Doesn't make much sense to me.

conor912 · #17 06-26-2013, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Why schedule the Nationals at the same time every yr? Can't a month later or so work to place us at a venue that would draw a larger crowd?? Doesn't make much sense to me.

I would guess that August is when the most people can take the time off to go.

T205 GB · #18 06-26-2013, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conor912

I would guess that August is when the most people can take the time off to go.

Why not May, June, or July then. Summer break is in effect all those months also. Plus people with kids won't be stressing money spending since school clothes and tuition are a few months out

conor912 · #19 06-26-2013, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T205 GB

Why not May, June, or July then. Summer break is in effect all those months also. Plus people with kids won't be stressing money spending since school clothes and tuition are a few months out

As the parent of school-aged children, may and June are not an option and I'm willing to bet a significant percentage of the potential attendees are in the same boat.

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