When is a Card Not a Card?

4815162342 · #1 06-28-2013, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardboard Junkie

... I don't consider "paper thin" products cards....(thinking here that "card" means "cardboard"). ... Dave

Everyone, may I have your attention! Please follow Dave's lead and stop collecting paper thin baseball cards!

Especially those horribly paper-thin Mello Mints...

MMarvelli · #2 06-28-2013, 02:24 PM

I believe that collecting vintage pre-war cards isn�t best judged by the definition of the word �card� by post-war adolescents whose almost overwhelming supply of baseball player likenesses were distributed on cardboard. If you are collecting post-war baseball cards then I can see a desire to collect strictly cardboard.

But if you are passionately collecting pre-war �cards� I think you are in a vast minority if you only pursue standard weight and sized cardboard. Also, to say that the word �card� is short for cardboard and defines the hobby would be a bit cavalier. I would think it would be rather ballzy to call up J.R. Burdick (at the time) and start a conversation that he incorrectly named the American Card Catalog because it contains silks, blankets, chips, disks, flimsy paper, �oversized� cards, etc.

I think if you are collecting pre-war you are more inclined to embrace the ACC and its abundant variety. If you are a type collector, like me, it would be insane to be a cardboard only type collector while using the ACC as your general index for pre-war cards. If you only collect thick, stackable cardboard of a generally established maximum size of approximately 3� x 4�, you would exclude the majority of the ACC.

I am not sure why there is a need to define card collecting with a rigid majority standard. It is what you decide it is to you. If you want to collect HOF members you can go hard core and narrowly define your standards. You can also broadly collect HOF members and obtain any item, including post cards and maybe even press photo�s. It isn�t like the professor gives us a grade based on one criteria when our quest is complete.

So, my answer to �when is a card a card?� would be that it is irrelevant.

Exhibitman · #3 06-28-2013, 02:39 PM

Good answer!

SetBuilder · #4 06-28-2013, 03:01 PM

(1) The word "postcard" contains the word "card".
(2) An image of a baseball player can be printed on the front of a postcard.
(3) If an image of a baseball player is printed on the front of a postcard, it is now a baseball player postcard.
(4) The phrase "baseball ~~player~~ ~~post~~card" can be reduced to "baseball card".
(5) Therefore, a baseball player postcard is a baseball card.

Runscott · #5 06-28-2013, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

(1) The word "postcard" contains the word "card".
(2) An image of a baseball player can be printed on the front of a postcard.
(3) If an image of a baseball player is printed on the front of a postcard, it is now a baseball player postcard.
(4) The phrase "baseball ~~player~~ ~~post~~card" can be reduced to "baseball card".
(5) Therefore, a baseball player postcard is a baseball card.

Your logic would also apply to i.d. cards such as passports and drivers licenses.

People can rationalize anything if it works to their advantage. A previous post had someone rationalizing photographs into the mix

A postcard is actually a postcard. A baseball player postcard would be a baseball player postcard.

Luckily for those of us who have been around for enough of these debates, we already have our own thoughts, and given that we are talking about vintage items that have been discussed for decades, it's doubtful that any of us will change our opinions. We are all post-war adolescents, so our thinking about this is actually quite relevant...since we are the only group doing the thinking and discussing.

Cardboard Junkie · #6 06-28-2013, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMarvelli

I believe that collecting vintage pre-war cards isn�t best judged by the definition of the word �card� by post-war adolescents whose almost overwhelming supply of baseball player likenesses were distributed on cardboard. If you are collecting post-war baseball cards then I can see a desire to collect strictly cardboard.

But if you are passionately collecting pre-war �cards� I think you are in a vast minority if you only pursue standard weight and sized cardboard. Also, to say that the word �card� is short for cardboard and defines the hobby would be a bit cavalier. I would think it would be rather ballzy to call up J.R. Burdick (at the time) and start a conversation that he incorrectly named the American Card Catalog because it contains silks, blankets, chips, disks, flimsy paper, �oversized� cards, etc.

I think if you are collecting pre-war you are more inclined to embrace the ACC and its abundant variety. If you are a type collector, like me, it would be insane to be a cardboard only type collector while using the ACC as your general index for pre-war cards. If you only collect thick, stackable cardboard of a generally established maximum size of approximately 3� x 4�, you would exclude the majority of the ACC.

I am not sure why there is a need to define card collecting with a rigid majority standard. It is what you decide it is to you. If you want to collect HOF members you can go hard core and narrowly define your standards. You can also broadly collect HOF members and obtain any item, including post cards and maybe even press photo�s. It isn�t like the professor gives us a grade based on one criteria when our quest is complete.

So, my answer to �when is a card a card?� would be that it is irrelevant.

I guess I'm pretty ballsy, because I believe Burdick got A LOT of stuff wrong.
After all he was a pioneer in a primitive field. If the advantages we have today were available to him things would have been done different, and IMO more correctly. Dave.

#7 06-28-2013, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMarvelli

I believe that collecting vintage pre-war cards isn’t best judged by the definition of the word ‘card’ by post-war adolescents whose almost overwhelming supply of baseball player likenesses were distributed on cardboard. If you are collecting post-war baseball cards then I can see a desire to collect strictly cardboard.

But if you are passionately collecting pre-war ‘cards’ I think you are in a vast minority if you only pursue standard weight and sized cardboard. Also, to say that the word ‘card’ is short for cardboard and defines the hobby would be a bit cavalier. I would think it would be rather ballzy to call up J.R. Burdick (at the time) and start a conversation that he incorrectly named the American Card Catalog because it contains silks, blankets, chips, disks, flimsy paper, ‘oversized’ cards, etc.

I think if you are collecting pre-war you are more inclined to embrace the ACC and its abundant variety. If you are a type collector, like me, it would be insane to be a cardboard only type collector while using the ACC as your general index for pre-war cards. If you only collect thick, stackable cardboard of a generally established maximum size of approximately 3” x 4”, you would exclude the majority of the ACC.

I am not sure why there is a need to define card collecting with a rigid majority standard. It is what you decide it is to you. If you want to collect HOF members you can go hard core and narrowly define your standards. You can also broadly collect HOF members and obtain any item, including post cards and maybe even press photo’s. It isn’t like the professor gives us a grade based on one criteria when our quest is complete.

So, my answer to “when is a card a card?” would be that it is irrelevant.

Great summary.

But when is a card, not a card? IMO only when a larger piece of cardboard has been trimmed to accommodate a player photo/sig, such as this heavy stock cardboard ca. 1949-50 Joe Orengo sig with a disembodied head at the bottom of the card, and Frank O'Douls name at top (about card size). Love to know what PCL, WIL league poster this came from.

Bugsy · #8 06-28-2013, 04:16 PM

Opening a can of worms

joeadcock · #9 06-28-2013, 05:26 PM

...See next

joeadcock · #10 06-28-2013, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Everyone, may I have your attention! Please follow Dave's lead and stop collecting paper thin baseball cards!

Especially those horribly paper-thin Mello Mints...

Yep......who needs those paper thin things like 1921 Tip Top Bread......just junk..........Ill take the junk

................................
Manny from Miami...interesting use of Transitive Property with Baseball cards.

(from Kendall myself years ago.....You?)

SetBuilder · #11 06-28-2013, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeadcock

Manny from Miami...interesting use of Transitive Property with Baseball cards.

(from Kendall myself years ago.....You?)

I was originally from Hialeah.
Lived in Kendall for a few years when I went to FIU.

Runscott - Find me Honus Wagner's I.D. card or Ty Cobb's passport card and it'll be collected here as if it were a card.

Pre-WWII baseball player's driver license card = baseball card.

Runscott · #12 06-28-2013, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

I was originally from Hialeah.
Lived in Kendall for a few years when I went to FIU.

Runscott - Find me Honus Wagner's I.D. card or Ty Cobb's passport card and it'll be collected here as if it were a card.

Pre-WWII baseball player's driver license card = baseball card.

I actually agree that it doesn't matter, but lots of things don't matter to me - that doesn't mean I can't figure out the answer.

robw1959 · #13 07-01-2013, 05:47 PM

How about those game cards? Another can of worms . . .

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
1961 Topps card with huge finger prints ERROR CARD	sb1	Live Auctions - Only 2-3 open, per member, at once.	5	12-21-2012 05:59 PM
1911 t201 mecca double folder card and 1 cuban card (SOLD !!!!!!)	chris122868	Live Auctions - Only 2-3 open, per member, at once.	7	08-29-2010 02:20 AM
TAKING OFFERS -- 1 T card, 1 E card 1 Notebook card 1 Diamond Star plus extra!!	Archive	Tobacco (T) cards, except T206 B/S/T	1	12-11-2008 11:09 AM
For sale 1932 Zeenut Hollywood Vitt, Manager Card cool card	Archive	1920 to 1949 Baseball cards- B/S/T	0	09-24-2008 12:44 PM
Ruth-Gehrig card, near mint, in Gary Engel's Japanese card auction.	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	0	09-28-2002 07:33 PM