How about some answers for this? Where are you Peter Nash?

[travrosty]

It's misdirection plain and simple.

The truth shouldnt count because they dont like the source.

If the information on these 'mistakes' aka total screwups are not true, let's see some counterpoints.

I am not here to account for anybody else but myself so don't try that game on pinning stuff on me. It's baloney.

Please post the names of all of your friends, associates, contacts, so we can comb through them and tell you who you should and should not associate with. thanks for complying with this simple request.

[travrosty]

I would like to know why Leon isn't similarly interested in Mike Guttierez and the Hall of Fame? Has that been answered by Mike here or elsewhere? Seems to me there is a double standard in Leon's world? I should start a thread on that.

[Runscott]

Travis, this thread is about Peter Nash - if you would address points head-on, and quit deflecting, at least we might begin to understand why you have let Nash off the hook. I appreciate your contributions to the hobby, and have enjoyed our exchanges, so don't take this the wrong way.

This is one of the few threads I can post in where I only have to worry about one person beating me up over my opinion

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Travis, this thread is about Peter Nash - if you would address points head-on, and quit deflecting, at least we might begin to understand why you have let Nash off the hook. I appreciate your contributions to the hobby, and have enjoyed our exchanges, so don't take this the wrong way.

This is one of the few threads I can post in where I only have to worry about one person beating me up over my opinion

The whole thread was put up as a fake to deflect the current misauthentications uncovered by HOS. It's an attack the messenger thread that serves no purpose other than to provide cover to the tpa's and those that pay them for their non-opinions. It;s the truth no matter who uncovers it and whether or not you or anyone else likes them or not.

Shelly admitted as much that HOS goes after different auction houses, not just lifson, and are you pilloring him about it? no you are not. It;s open season on me though. why, i didnt do anything wrong. the truth is the truth and as i have told others, please disclose EVERYONE you like, or associate with and let's look at them all and decide whether or not you should continue such relationships.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by travrosty

The whole thread was put up as a fake to deflect the current misauthentications uncovered by HOS. It's an attack the messenger thread that serves no purpose other than to provide cover to the tpa's and those that pay them for their non-opinions. It;s the truth no matter who uncovers it and whether or not you or anyone else likes them or not.

Shelly admitted as much that HOS goes after different auction houses, not just lifson, and are you pilloring him about it? no you are not. It;s open season on me though. why, i didnt do anything wrong. the truth is the truth and as i have told others, please disclose EVERYONE you like, or associate with and let's look at them all and decide whether or not you should continue such relationships.

It is not misdirection, it's another thread...you can choose to read and respond to whichever thread you want. This isn't the PSA boards where threads go poof in the night. Leon didn't delete your thread and he has never deleted anything you have written on this forum.

Your association with Nash takes you down in the dirt with him. Your blatant hypocrisy in this matter is astounding. YOU ARE KNOWINGLY ASSOCIATING YOURSELF WITH SOMEONE WHO HAS DEFRAUDED PEOPLE IN THIS BUSINESS AND REFUSES TO MAKE RESTITUTION. You think I care what you have to say about Bugsy Siegel when you're palling around with Al Capone???

[travrosty]

We've did this all before a hundred times and it turns into an "association game" when it really is a game of misdirections because a company like abc or xyz or so and so auctions can't get their game straight.

Why can't heritage come on here and address their poor performance on boxing, p.t. barnum or anything else?

answer is guess is nash? ????

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by travrosty

We've did this all before a hundred times and it turns into an "association game" when it really is a game of misdirections because a company like abc or xyz or so and so auctions can't get their game straight.

Why can't heritage come on here and address their poor performance on boxing, p.t. barnum or anything else?

answer is guess is nash? ????

Think whatever you like Travis...I no longer trust you, and I doubt I'm alone. Oh and this is not misdirection..I think Heritage gets it wrong a lot, they are not responsive to us and I'd like to hear more about Mike Gutierrez's ban from the HOF library (from someone other than Nash or you). And I think PSA and JSA both suck.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Think whatever you like Travis...I no longer trust you, and I doubt I'm alone.

+1. It baffles me why Nash, whose misdeeds are of the intentional and malicious sort and are well documented, gets a free pass from Travis while the AHs and TPGs, who are at worst incompetent, are subjects of such shrill, vindictive screeds. The utter glee he shows in finding a purported TPG or AH mistake--out of the tens of thousands of authentications and listings every year--make it sound like he has a vendetta against all of them. Consequently, I too do not trust much of what he says.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

+1. It baffles me why Nash, whose misdeeds are of the intentional and malicious sort and are well documented, gets a free pass from Travis while the AHs and TPGs, who are at worst incompetent, are subjects of such shrill, vindictive screeds. The utter glee he shows in finding a purported TPG or AH mistake--out of the tens of thousands of authentications and listings every year--make it sound like he has a vendetta against all of them. Consequently, I too do not trust much of what he says.

+2. a big fat idiot to be sure, IMHO

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

+2. a big fat idiot to be sure, IMHO

chuck tapia,

so when both psa and jsa issue a full loa for a thomas sayers signed piece of paper from the 1860's, then get caught by the real experts for having NO exemplars, then they pull the loa's from heritage. How is that NOT fraud?

can you answer that? when heritage learned of the loa's being pulled because of no exemplars, why didnt they fire psa and jsa?

answer: rhymes with honey.

[slidekellyslide]

This thread is about Peter Nash, why do you keep deflecting to PSA and JSA?

[mighty bombjack]

Back on topic:

This particular complaint seems to revolve around the charge that Nash claimed material ownership of an item (or a collection) that he did not in fact own (and thereby illegally profited from that claim).

I see that the "White Betsy" Cooperstown forger blog is no longer up and running. What, if anything, can anyone tell me about that? In particular, who wrote that blog, and is there proof that Nash is indeed the aforementioned forger? I know that peole may need to tread carefully here.

I have read about Nash's legal troubles akin to this one, but I wanna know what stuff he's faked.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

+1. It baffles me why Nash, whose misdeeds are of the intentional and malicious sort and are well documented, gets a free pass from Travis while the AHs and TPGs, who are at worst incompetent, are subjects of such shrill, vindictive screeds. The utter glee he shows in finding a purported TPG or AH mistake--out of the tens of thousands of authentications and listings every year--make it sound like he has a vendetta against all of them. Consequently, I too do not trust much of what he says.

psa and jsa are third party authenticators, they make incredible, stupid mistakes that can't be chalked up to just human error. they dont care about the consumer and won't correct their mistakes are even delete the bad exemplars from psa autographfacts when shown the error of their ways.

the defenders of this psa and jsa nonsense keeps trying to flip it to someone else who is not a third party authenticator nor issues coa's.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by travrosty

psa and jsa are third party authenticators, they make incredible, stupid mistakes that can't be chalked up to just human error. they dont care about the consumer and won't correct their mistakes are even delete the bad exemplars from psa autographfacts when shown the error of their ways.

the defenders of this psa and jsa nonsense keeps trying to flip it to someone else who is not a third party authenticator nor issues coa's.

Are you chalking up Nash's dirty deeds to "human error"?

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by travrosty

psa and jsa are third party authenticators, they make incredible, stupid mistakes that can't be chalked up to just human error. they dont care about the consumer and won't correct their mistakes are even delete the bad exemplars from psa autographfacts when shown the error of their ways.

the defenders of this psa and jsa nonsense keeps trying to flip it to someone else who is not a third party authenticator nor issues coa's.

I don't agree with this. Every issue I have had with PSA (and I have had many), they have gone above and beyond to correct their mistake. With that said, I would rather conduct business with PSA than Peter Nash.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I don't agree with this. Every issue I have had with PSA (and I have had many), they have gone above and beyond to correct their mistake. With that said, I would rather conduct business with PSA than Peter Nash.

how did they correct the ty cobb laser print, by admitting it? nope.

they know that the bob fitzsimmons wife signed exemplar is still up on psaautographfacts and do they correct it by taking it down? nope, the cap anson exemplar, do they take it down when they know its not real? nope.

please deal with reality. are grad and spence experts? you decide, they give out loa's with out exemplars to compare the signature to. some experts.



Is nash a third party authenticator? i didnt see where he was a third party authenticator.

bottom line, if nash were only talking about Coaches corner, morales or ted taylor, not only would it be NO BIG DEAL, but the people here would be joining in. it's just because he shows the bonehead authentications by the buddies of this site do people get mad. That's it. no one would care if it were coaches corner/morales mistakes on HOS.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by travrosty

psa and jsa are third party authenticators, they make incredible, stupid mistakes that can't be chalked up to just human error. they dont care about the consumer and won't correct their mistakes are even delete the bad exemplars from psa autographfacts when shown the error of their ways.

the defenders of this psa and jsa nonsense keeps trying to flip it to someone else who is not a third party authenticator nor issues coa's.

I am not defending the TPGs; I am not exactly on PSA's friends list since I sued them successfully on behalf of one of our members some years ago and rip them regularly for what they do wrong in writings going back more than a decade. That said, if you believe that the company's mistakes are something more than mistakes, if you are suggesting that their business model is to intentionally mess up their work product, that simply does not comport with reality nor is it supported by a scintilla of evidence. I'm a lawyer, Travis, I deal in evidence, not assumptions and accusations. Show me the proof underlying your opinion that the TPG mistakes are not "just human error" and show me the proof that they "don't care about the consumer."

As for why you are unable to get PSA and JSA to see things your way on purported erroneous exemplars, I think it is not that their managements don't care about the customers but more that they don't care about your opinions. You may be right on some things, I don't know, but you often state your views here in a manner that is so shrill, intolerant, obnoxious and arrogant that people who don't know you are not exactly going to be inclined to listen. You maintain that kind of public persona and you will need a lot more than "because I say it is" to back up your statements. Credibility comes with respect and respect has to be earned continually. Nash may be right on some things, but he is a con artist and deadbeat with an ax to grind against Rob Lifson, so people aren't exactly going to take his screeds as sermons from the mount, either.

[ibuysportsephemera]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

As for why you are unable to get PSA and JSA to see things your way on purported erroneous exemplars, I think it is not that their managements don't care about the customers but more that they don't care about your opinions. You may be right on some things, I don't know, but you often state your views here in a manner that is so shrill, intolerant, obnoxious and arrogant that people who don't know you are not exactly going to be inclined to listen. You maintain that kind of public persona and you will need a lot more than "because I say it is" to back up your statements. Credibility comes with respect and respect has to be earned continually.

+1 million

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I am not defending the TPGs; I am not exactly on PSA's friends list since I sued them successfully on behalf of one of our members some years ago and rip them regularly for what they do wrong in writings going back more than a decade. That said, if you believe that the company's mistakes are something more than mistakes, if you are suggesting that their business model is to intentionally mess up their work product, that simply does not comport with reality nor is it supported by a scintilla of evidence. I'm a lawyer, Travis, I deal in evidence, not assumptions and accusations. Show me the proof underlying your opinion that the TPG mistakes are not "just human error" and show me the proof that they "don't care about the consumer."

As for why you are unable to get PSA and JSA to see things your way on purported erroneous exemplars, I think it is not that their managements don't care about the customers but more that they don't care about your opinions. You may be right on some things, I don't know, but you often state your views here in a manner that is so shrill, intolerant, obnoxious and arrogant that people who don't know you are not exactly going to be inclined to listen. You maintain that kind of public persona and you will need a lot more than "because I say it is" to back up your statements. Credibility comes with respect and respect has to be earned continually. Nash may be right on some things, but he is a con artist and deadbeat with an ax to grind against Rob Lifson, so people aren't exactly going to take his screeds as sermons from the mount, either.

Beautifully written post. I am in total agreement all around.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I am not defending the TPGs; I am not exactly on PSA's friends list since I sued them successfully on behalf of one of our members some years ago and rip them regularly for what they do wrong in writings going back more than a decade. That said, if you believe that the company's mistakes are something more than mistakes, if you are suggesting that their business model is to intentionally mess up their work product, that simply does not comport with reality nor is it supported by a scintilla of evidence. I'm a lawyer, Travis, I deal in evidence, not assumptions and accusations. Show me the proof underlying your opinion that the TPG mistakes are not "just human error" and show me the proof that they "don't care about the consumer."

As for why you are unable to get PSA and JSA to see things your way on purported erroneous exemplars, I think it is not that their managements don't care about the customers but more that they don't care about your opinions. You may be right on some things, I don't know, but you often state your views here in a manner that is so shrill, intolerant, obnoxious and arrogant that people who don't know you are not exactly going to be inclined to listen. You maintain that kind of public persona and you will need a lot more than "because I say it is" to back up your statements. Credibility comes with respect and respect has to be earned continually. Nash may be right on some things, but he is a con artist and deadbeat with an ax to grind against Rob Lifson, so people aren't exactly going to take his screeds as sermons from the mount, either.

You haven't been paying attention have you?

when they issue loa for an autograph without any exemlars to compare it to, even though the loa says it was comapared to exemplars, is that just human error, an innocent mistake?


NO N-O!


as far as the bad exemplars on psa autograph facts, we showed them the rosalie fitzsimmons autograph where the fitzsimmons part matches up exactly with the fake fitzsimmons they have on there, so they know already its bad, they just dont care.

Of course you don't know if we are right or not. That's why you defend psa. if you knew if we were right or not, you wouldn't. How is that PSA slabbed 'signed' Holyfield card doing? You threw it away, right?


We tried contacting psa and the auction houses in the so called 'nice' way, we were polite, respectful, caring, loving, all-american, etc. THEY DONT CARE! That's what it got us when we tried to help. They didn't give a damn!

Me and M.O. from fighttoys tried to help heritage, I tried to help psa, they couldn't give a F.R.A. about it. It's the cold shoulder brush off. They would just say - thanks, we will take care of it, and then it was business as usual. The band plays on!

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I am not defending the TPGs; I am not exactly on PSA's friends list since I sued them successfully on behalf of one of our members some years ago and rip them regularly for what they do wrong in writings going back more than a decade. That said, if you believe that the company's mistakes are something more than mistakes, if you are suggesting that their business model is to intentionally mess up their work product, that simply does not comport with reality nor is it supported by a scintilla of evidence. I'm a lawyer, Travis, I deal in evidence, not assumptions and accusations. Show me the proof underlying your opinion that the TPG mistakes are not "just human error" and show me the proof that they "don't care about the consumer."

As for why you are unable to get PSA and JSA to see things your way on purported erroneous exemplars, I think it is not that their managements don't care about the customers but more that they don't care about your opinions. You may be right on some things, I don't know, but you often state your views here in a manner that is so shrill, intolerant, obnoxious and arrogant that people who don't know you are not exactly going to be inclined to listen. You maintain that kind of public persona and you will need a lot more than "because I say it is" to back up your statements. Credibility comes with respect and respect has to be earned continually. Nash may be right on some things, but he is a con artist and deadbeat with an ax to grind against Rob Lifson, so people aren't exactly going to take his screeds as sermons from the mount, either.

Well said, and unfortunately I'll bet only 99% of the forum understand this point.

Ken

[thenavarro]

Adam,

Your post is too insightful for this thread. Please cease and desist sir.

Mike

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I am not defending the TPGs; I am not exactly on PSA's friends list since I sued them successfully on behalf of one of our members some years ago and rip them regularly for what they do wrong in writings going back more than a decade. That said, if you believe that the company's mistakes are something more than mistakes, if you are suggesting that their business model is to intentionally mess up their work product, that simply does not comport with reality nor is it supported by a scintilla of evidence. I'm a lawyer, Travis, I deal in evidence, not assumptions and accusations. Show me the proof underlying your opinion that the TPG mistakes are not "just human error" and show me the proof that they "don't care about the consumer."

As for why you are unable to get PSA and JSA to see things your way on purported erroneous exemplars, I think it is not that their managements don't care about the customers but more that they don't care about your opinions. You may be right on some things, I don't know, but you often state your views here in a manner that is so shrill, intolerant, obnoxious and arrogant that people who don't know you are not exactly going to be inclined to listen. You maintain that kind of public persona and you will need a lot more than "because I say it is" to back up your statements. Credibility comes with respect and respect has to be earned continually. Nash may be right on some things, but he is a con artist and deadbeat with an ax to grind against Rob Lifson, so people aren't exactly going to take his screeds as sermons from the mount, either.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by travrosty

We've did this all before a hundred times and it turns into an "association game" when it really is a game of misdirections because a company like abc or xyz or so and so auctions can't get their game straight.

Why can't heritage come on here and address their poor performance on boxing, p.t. barnum or anything else?

answer is guess is nash? ????

Dan already wrote "that it's a separate thread."

Where's the misdirection?

You can either post a comment or ignore it.

[mighty bombjack]

Nash is a fascinating figure to be sure. The amount of fraud that he has perpetrated in the hobby seems to be quite large, if the "Cooperstown forger" rumors are true. What exactly drives him to shine light on the other dirty cracks around him (which ranges from ineptitude to fraud)?

And I will go ahead and add to the pile of people pointing out that the only misdirection in this thread is Travis's own. We can (and should) have threads about TPAs, auction houses, bad autos, and Nash. Let's talk about all of it.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

Nash is a fascinating figure to be sure. The amount of fraud that he has perpetrated in the hobby seems to be quite large, if the "Cooperstown forger" rumors are true. What exactly drives him to shine light on the other dirty cracks around him (which ranges from ineptitude to fraud)?

And I will go ahead and add to the pile of people pointing out that the only misdirection in this thread is Travis's own. We can (and should) have threads about TPAs, auction houses, bad autos, and Nash. Let's talk about all of it.

I think Travis calls it misdirecting.

[travrosty]

i dont mind, but to post a nash thread only directly after another thread about tpa's and heritage is to misdirect. wasnt a yesterday a good day to do it, or the day before. It's all a fake. lets go 12 pages on and on about this. right. happens every time. the call goes out so the cavalry comes in.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by travrosty

i dont mind, but to post a nash thread only directly after another thread about tpa's and heritage is to misdirect. wasnt a yesterday a good day to do it, or the day before. It's all a fake. lets go 12 pages on and on about this. right. happens every time. the call goes out so the cavalry comes in.

The irony being, Travis, that you brought more attention to this thread than anyone else.

[travrosty]

like i said i dont have anything to hide. it was going to go for several pages anyway, just like the script called for. that's why it was started.