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nsaddict · #1 08-22-2013, 07:17 PM

I agree with most in regards to fraud, but don't understand why so many fingers are pointed at Probstein? The guy is only the middle-man with 8000+ feedbacks per month. Think about it, nearly 300 per day! One of the most prolific card sellers of all time! Should he be able to track and dig into every sale? Rick has had the nuts to come on this site and try to explain things. You have the right not to bid, it's that simple. If someone has concrete proof I'd like to hear it. I have no affiliation whatsover and do bid when I need a card at a price that I'm comfortable with. Same with the auction houses. To be continued for sure

Leon · #2 08-22-2013, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nsaddict

I agree with most in regards to fraud, but don't understand why so many fingers are pointed at Probstein? The guy is only the middle-man with 8000+ feedbacks per month. Think about it, nearly 300 per day! One of the most prolific card sellers of all time! Should he be able to track and dig into every sale? Rick has had the nuts to come on this site and try to explain things. You have the right not to bid, it's that simple. If someone has concrete proof I'd like to hear it. I have no affiliation whatsover and do bid when I need a card at a price that I'm comfortable with. Same with the auction houses. To be continued for sure

I agree with you.

vintagetoppsguy · #3 08-22-2013, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nsaddict

I agree with most in regards to fraud, but don't understand why so many fingers are pointed at Probstein?

Very well, I�ll connect the dots for you. It was learned in the Art Shell thread that a guy by the name of Joseph M Pankiewicz was buying PSA graded cards from Probstein auctions, re-subbing them for higher grades and re-listing them again with Probstein. Some cards he made $1000s of dollars on. He was also caught schilling on those very same auctions. Joseph M Pankiewicz is from New Jersey, just a few miles from Probstein. Coincidence? It was my theory at the time that the cards never really exchanged hands, that Joseph M Pankiewicz and Probstein were in cahoots with each other to make it appear (for the sake of the original consignor) that a transaction occurred, and there was also an insider at PSA they gave them magical bumps on undeserving cards.

Now we have the very same situation happening again with another eBay user (gpark73) that also happens to live in where? In New Jersey. Oh, and guess what? He�s also schilling his auctions. Look at the bid history of the Henry card in this thread. Gpark73 with a feedback score of 397 won the original auction and then he also bid on the card the second time around. Again, it�s all right there in the bid history.

So we have the same MO happening twice now with Probstein. It�s like d�j� vu all over again. Do you honestly think it�s just a coincidence? If nothing else, the guy is guilty of schilling his own auctions and Probstein needs to do something about it. I am going to try my hardest the true identity of gpark73

Quote:

Originally Posted by nsaddict

If someone has concrete proof I'd like to hear it.

No concrete proof, but the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.

Theo_450 · #4 08-22-2013, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Very well, I�ll connect the dots for you. It was learned in the Art Shell thread that a guy by the name of Joseph M Pankiewicz was buying PSA graded cards from Probstein auctions, re-subbing them for higher grades and re-listing them again with Probstein. Some cards he made $1000s of dollars on. He was also caught schilling on those very same auctions. Joseph M Pankiewicz is from New Jersey, just a few miles from Probstein. Coincidence? It was my theory at the time that the cards never really exchanged hands, that Joseph M Pankiewicz and Probstein were in cahoots with each other to make it appear (for the sake of the original consignor) that a transaction occurred, and there was also an insider at PSA they gave them magical bumps on undeserving cards.

Now we have the very same situation happening again with another eBay user (gpark73) that also happens to live in where? In New Jersey. Oh, and guess what? He�s also schilling his auctions. Look at the bid history of the Henry card in this thread. Gpark73 with a feedback score of 397 won the original auction and then he also bid on the card the second time around. Again, it�s all right there in the bid history.

So we have the same MO happening twice now with Probstein. It�s like d�j� vu all over again. Do you honestly think it�s just a coincidence? If nothing else, the guy is guilty of schilling his own auctions and Probstein needs to do something about it. I am going to try my hardest the true identity of gpark73

No concrete proof, but the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.

So much for my decimal theory.

nsaddict · #5 08-22-2013, 09:01 PM

David,

"No concrete proof, but the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming."

Really? To suggest overwhelming evidence that Probstein has a hand in this is totally absurd at this point. The Art Shell thread was a full year ago and nearly 100K transactions later. I agree there are some shady consignors playing the grading game and receiving great returns. The hobby should keep an eye on this for sure. The OP (Striker) has posted some great comparison pics but a heck of a lot more info would be required to make it "overwhelming" in my opinion. The New Jersey connection adds one brick to the house, anyone have more bricks to add?

vintagetoppsguy · #6 08-22-2013, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nsaddict

To suggest overwhelming evidence that Probstein has a hand in this is totally absurd at this point.

At the very minimum, Rick should be aware that his consignors are schilling their own auctions. He's turning a blind eye. Go ahead, I know it's coming. Give me your Probstein apologetic excuse and tell me now many 1000s of auctions he runs every month and there's no way he can keep track of who's bidding on what, blah, blah, blah. No, save it. It's the same thing I heard in the Art Shell thread, only a different consignor this time (or is it?).

******************************************

On another note, PSA needs to look to see if there is a rat on the inside. I've cracked and re-submitted several cards in my life and several have bumped, but not the significant bumps that pank21 and gpark73 get. They need to take note of the serial numbers on these flips and see if they're all being graded by the same person. If so, they have a problem.

travrosty · #7 08-22-2013, 09:25 PM

altering a card is not fraud, but altering it and submitting it with the intent to fool the authentication company is fraud. its intent, not the actual outcome. it's hard to prove intent, but if someone is trimming and trying to slide it past psa with intent to get a numerical grade it is fraud. otherwise if they werent trying to commit fraud, and they altered it, they could just tell psa they altered it and get the A, if they arent doing that, then they are trying to get a numerical grade. if it came back with a numerical grade, then the submitter who altered it, should send it back and demand the A grade, but that would be the honest thing to do if the person wasnt trying to defraud someone. because the submitter knows that it was altered, accepting a numerical grade knowing it was altered and not doing anything about it is part of the fraud.

MattyC · #8 08-22-2013, 11:11 PM

So if I understand the conspiracy theory that was advanced above correctly, Rick's in cahoots with a guy buying and bumping cards to make what score again?

He'd have to be whacking up these alleged proceeds with...

1. This buyer/bumper...

And...

2. The hypothetical "inside man" at the TPG.

Is this nefarious Parallax View conspiracy theory enterprise so profitable that it is worth it to Rick, when he clearly has a lucrative business running? Is there enough profit in this alleged three-man at minimum operation to go around?

I for one ain't buying this as a consignor issue.

My opinion is worth precisely what any other is of course, but to me this is about wildly inconsistent grading, plain and simple. Everything else is noise and seeing bogeymen. Too many collectors out there treat those red flips like they are the star of the show. The star is the card. If a card has stains and problems and it's a true 7, I don't care what some "professional" grader says it is, be it a 9 or a 5.

The secondary problem, after the grader bumping those cards, is on whoever wants to pay top dollar for a stained 8.5.

If I was to buy a more nefarious scenario, I find the only plausible one to be a two-man affair with a buyer and an inside man at a TPG. Neither of those has, hypothetically, another very high-paying gig. More plausible could be a grader as "boss" who spots the cards and his buyer/subber is merely getting a tiny cut. But a big consignor as part of it just doesn't hold water to me. Not enough profit to risk a good business.

scooter729 · #9 08-23-2013, 06:56 AM

If Probstein and the buyer are in cahoots to buy/sell a card once, then get it bumped and re-sell it for more with its higher grade, I have one question.....

Why go through the charade of the first transaction? There would be zero point to doing that. Wouldn't they just go straight to their PSA 'insider' and get a higher grade, then sell it once?

There would be no need for the first transaction if indeed there was this grassy knoll conspiracy that many folks believe here....

Or am I missing something by having the first transaction?

D.P.Johnson · #10 08-22-2013, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Very well, I�ll connect the dots for you. It was learned in the Art Shell thread that a guy by the name of Joseph M Pankiewicz was buying PSA graded cards from Probstein auctions, re-subbing them for higher grades and re-listing them again with Probstein. Some cards he made $1000s of dollars on. He was also caught schilling on those very same auctions. Joseph M Pankiewicz is from New Jersey, just a few miles from Probstein. Coincidence? It was my theory at the time that the cards never really exchanged hands, that Joseph M Pankiewicz and Probstein were in cahoots with each other to make it appear (for the sake of the original consignor) that a transaction occurred, and there was also an insider at PSA they gave them magical bumps on undeserving cards.

Now we have the very same situation happening again with another eBay user (gpark73) that also happens to live in where? In New Jersey. Oh, and guess what? He�s also schilling his auctions. Look at the bid history of the Henry card in this thread. Gpark73 with a feedback score of 397 won the original auction and then he also bid on the card the second time around. Again, it�s all right there in the bid history.

So we have the same MO happening twice now with Probstein. It�s like d�j� vu all over again. Do you honestly think it�s just a coincidence? If nothing else, the guy is guilty of schilling his own auctions and Probstein needs to do something about it. I am going to try my hardest the true identity of gpark73

No concrete proof, but the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.

This is the type of nexus I'm referring to. If this could be proven, all of the involved parties would be "screwed" (pardon my french)...

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