Would the Hobby welcome a new TPG Co.that was high tech?

[steve B]

The cost will need to be higher. Software is expensive to produce, and also needs to be maintained as operating systems change and get updated.

But I do think there's a lot of room for a higher end service.

One that maintained a database of images of the graded cards would be good, especially if the scans were at higher resolutions. (Plus, if it could be worked out legally the images could possibly be licensed to auction houses, saving them the effort of creating scans. Not perfect, since the case could be damaged or scratched, but a possible way to recoup some of the data storage costs)

For many cards I don't think the digital fingerprint will work all that well. In new condition a manufactured item should be identical to the one made before and after. For an older worn card it would work, but if newer cards or very high grade cards are done, there would eventually be problems.

The unslabbed certification and grading is the standard for stamps. PSE will slab them, but it just hasn't gained acceptance in that market. For a good look at how it's done check out the Philatelic Foundation. http://www.philatelicfoundation.org/.../expertize.htm
Their service starts at $27, with a select group of less expensive items being discounted to $20. Approximately 30 day turnaround unless you want it quicker which costs more.

The most difficult things will be handling stuff that won't show in a scan, and the cards that don't easily fit a particular grade.

For instance this Konetchy. There's a tiny flake of surface missing from one corner. if it's seen as paperloss then they got the grade right. And yet I've seen cards with corners more rounded than what's been lost that graded as 60


Or, cards with factory but unusual features. This Needham was rejected because of rough but factory cuts top and bottom. I can see why they'd decline grading, most people wouldn't understand the difference in edge quality between the normally sharp blade and the worn blade and sacrificial strip that caused the rough cut, and would think it was trimmed.


Both of those would give a computer program trouble.

Size variance would also be problematic, I've had one rejected for min size vertically, but another in the same submission that was narrower by a differenc that was more than the difference in height than the rejected one and it got a grade. I have a few I like a lot, but won't send in since I know they're too short to get a grade even though they're factory cut.

I'd like to see a premium service work, and work well. And I've considered doing something as well. (More of a traditional grading but having an available detailed explanation of the grade. How many times do we see cards with an MK qualifier but can't find the mark?) But looking at it as a business, it's a massive uphill climb to even get into a solid fourth place. A registry that recognized other companies might help, but probably not much. So there's a load of upfront cost, and a need for massive ongoing advertising.

The cert for raw cards idea is the workable one. Maybe it would generate enough to support the premium service, maybe not.

Steve B

[conor912]

Originally Posted by steve B

The cost will need to be higher.

It all comes down to, "what can you reasonably expect someone to pay to get a card slabbed?." PSA has already priced themselves out of the market for a lot of collectors (including me, if I was into slabbing) at $17/card. Granted, there are bulk discounts, blah blah blah, but you get my point.

[T205 GB]

I know the cost is gonna be high for a majority of the software and the scanner to be built properly. I have been looking into this for a while now. I want to be able to provide a reasonable service at a reasonable fee that will give the hobby some peace of mind in what they are buying. Embossing the "flip" eliminates counterfeiting for that case. The cert number will be linked to large high res scans for viewing with the identifiers. The cases are going to be made of lexan which is a truly tough plastic and is hard to crack and scratch. The case will be put together in a different manner also virtually eliminating cards being cracked out without us doing it.

Every card made has its own identifying marks. Even the new shiny stuff. The program is designed to find all these marks and flaws. People who cross over cards will get the accurate grade for the card. Some guys will not be happy but I think overall fair and accurate grading will prevail. I am not looking to make my return back in the first few yrs by gouging the hobby in fees. The business plan is to take time and be accurate. I'm not gonna grade a $1000000 card any faster than a $10 card. Some may not like this but I don't think it's fair to the normal collector that they have to wait longer because someone else has a ton of money. As the company grows there will probably be a service that allows faster grading and people that soley handle that while the other people concentrate on the regular submissions. Labeling of errors and such shouldn't cost $75+. Maybe a few extra buck for the line would be fine but not that much. I don't want to take advantage of the hobby but make it a safer place. If any of you know me you know I have quite a passion for the hobby and am not afraid to call BS. Sometimes I'm wrong but sometimes I'm not. I want my kids to enjoy this and their kids to do the same for as long a there are cards available.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by conor912

It all comes down to, "what can you reasonably expect someone to pay to get a card slabbed?." PSA has already priced themselves out of the market for a lot of collectors (including me, if I was into slabbing) at $17/card. Granted, there are bulk discounts, blah blah blah, but you get my point.

I think Andrew is on to something. His post about service levels etc. I think is the right way to go about it. The stamp authentication place is $20 for some stuff, $27 or a percentage of the catalog value with a max fee of $625. NO discounts that I'm aware of except APS, one of the other major expertizing services is cheaper for members. (And the membership is inexpensive.) If the item is inexpensive enough that that expense is too much then it shouldn't be sent in.

I have a bunch that should be sent in, but I do my own examining, and I've become confident in getting it right. (Aside from a couple types of paper that give me difficulty) maybe someday if I decide to consign them I'll get it done.
I have sent in some cards, and it's actually sort of fun, in a way as exciting as buying them all over again.

Not rushing the authentication and grading is a big thing too. The stamp places are typically 30 days for Philatelic foundation, 45-90 for APEX, and PSE is 30-40 days. Some special items take longer. The longest I've heard of is around 5 years, and the results were published as a book.
But then, the subjects had been controversial since 1922.

http://www.thestampcollector.net/grinnell.html

And yes, they were found in a trunk in grandpas attic, and the judge in 1922 found that story nearly unbelievable Some things dont really ever change.....

I still doubt that every example of any particular card has unique identifiers from any other, but I figure that's ok.

I'm hoping Andrew makes it work and makes it successful. It'll be a lot of hard work, but even if all that happens is that the bar is raised for everyone and the hobby grows up a bit it will be worth it.

Steve B