1951 Wheaties Premiums

[whiteymet]

Found the photo in the Hulton archives of the Getty Images who has rights to the photo

See:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/ne...-photo/3244119

They date it circa 1955! Thus no way the set could be from 1951. Info says date created as 1/1/55 so best guess is photo was taken in 1954.

Thoughts anyone???

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Found the photo in the Hulton archives of the Getty Images who has rights to the photo

See:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/ne...-photo/3244119

They date it circa 1955! Thus no way the set could be from 1951. Info says date created as 1/1/55 so best guess is photo was taken in 1954.

Thoughts anyone???

I have way too much money into these cards for them to be from any year other than 1951. So, we can we just all agree that they are 1951 issues?

[pawpawdiv9]

Bestdj777- now the cat is out of the bag. How about selling yours for fraction of what you got it listed at. LOL!! You can take a few of those zero's off.

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

I have way too much money into these cards for them to be from any year other than 1955. So, we can we just all agree that they are 1951 issues?

Chris

I assume your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek when you said the above?

Money should have nothing to do with the truth. We should go where the evidence leads.

What is your take on what I have laid out?

Fred

[Bestdj777]

Fred,

I agree that it would be great to know more about the set even if it weren't from 1951. Although, it would obviously hurt the value if there were conclusive proof. As for what you've laid out so far, I think it is interesting but do not believe it really demonstrates anything about the actual age of the Wheaties product. There could just as easily be a mistake on the archive, etc., or it could not be a first edition photo (or whatever the photograph collectors call them)

To really figure things out, I think we would need an expert on uniforms to weigh in and determine if it is actual possible that these are 1951 uniforms for these players. I honestly just don't know enough about them myself to make a call.

And, Chris, not a chance At least not yet.

[whiteymet]

Chris:

I am NOT a photo collector or expert.

However I did a Google search for 1951 Mantle photos and the first ones shown in both home and away uniforms ALL show the patch I referenced on the left sleeve.

See: https://www.google.com/search?q=1951...&bih=549&dpr=1

Granted, the photo used in the 51 Wheaties is there as well as are many others that are obviously post 1951.

Fred

[Bestdj777]

I took a look. Most do have the patch. On the 51 Bowman cards, there are not patches on either jersey though.

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

I took a look. Most do have the patch. On the 51 Bowman cards, there are not patches on either jersey though.

Chris:

True that. But the original photo used for the 51 Bowman was taken in spring training.

See:http://www.1951bowmanbaseballcards.c...am%20Photo.htm

Above has photo AND a video from the same park where the photo was taken.

Teams used last years uniforms in spring traing and unveiled new ones once the season began.

The photo used in the 51 Wheaties set was obviously taken in a big league park. So, it seems the photo was taken at a big league park, but NOT in 1951.

So how could Wheaties have printed it in 1951? And again back to my original question, WHY would they have included him in a 1951 set when he was just a rookie with rather pedestrian stats?

Fred

[hcv123]

An after market make up job?

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by hcv123

An after market make up job?

Hi Howard:

Who knows?? I have seen or read no difinitive proof this is a Wheaties set. I am not home to read the info in the SCD Standard catalog, but I think I recall it saying something like "purported to be by Wheaties"

Even if it is a Wheaties issue, my "problem" as noted is with the year.

Why issue Mantle in a 1951 set? Make sense to you? Not me.

Fred

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

Found the photo in the Hulton archives of the Getty Images who has rights to the photo

See:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/ne...-photo/3244119

They date it circa 1955! Thus no way the set could be from 1951. Info says date created as 1/1/55 so best guess is photo was taken in 1954.

Thoughts anyone???

It seems like this is the best lead as far as dating. Getty is a stock photo agency. They sell the use rights for thousands of photographers and photographs. They list a "date created" as Jan 1, 1955. Worth a phone call checking how they arrived at that date. What is the Hutton archive etc.

[hcv123]

When do any of you first remember seeing these available for sale/auction? When were they added to the standard catalog? Not a stretch to think someone "created these" in the past 20 years. Anyone have one who is or knows a photo paper expert?

[sflayank]

these have been in the book a long time
they were listed as general mills and booked for $10ea

[whiteymet]

Gentlemen:

I opened this up for discussion in the memorabilia section to see if any of the photo collectors would be able to date the photo in question.

There is some VERY INTERESTING information and comments over there.

You can read it here:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=175818

I have in kind, "invited" them over to our discussion here. After reading some of the later posts there I feel we are getting closer to an answer.

Fred

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by hcv123

When do any of you first remember seeing these available for sale/auction? When were they added to the standard catalog? Not a stretch to think someone "created these" in the past 20 years. Anyone have one who is or knows a photo paper expert?

Howard:

I first came across one of these at the old Willow Grove show in PA during the 1980's. So these were "out" long before the SCD Standard catalog was issued.

I collected extensively in the late 60's into the mid 70's and would have picked these up then if I had ever seen them. So, what you are saying is very possible, but I have no way of knowing for sure.

Maybe someone has some old SCD's or other old collector issues and can determine when the "1951 Wheaties" first showed up on the scene.

Anyone?????

As for photo/paper experts, it is well above my paygrade! ;>)

Fred

[Bestdj777]

Definitely an interesting discussion over on that end. Glad to see some photo experts weigh in. It is amazing what they know about photos.

I am still leaning towards 1951. New York had very high expectations for Mantle, and I cannot think of a reason why he would not be included in a 1951 issue.

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

Definitely an interesting discussion over on that end. Glad to see some photo experts weigh in. It is amazing what they know about photos.

I am still leaning towards 1951. New York had very high expectations for Mantle, and I cannot think of a reason why he would not be included in a 1951 issue.

Hi Chris:

SORRY to burst your bubble. But Craig over on the memorabilia forum has proved beyond a doubt that the Mantle photo is from Oct. 6, 1952

See:http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=175818&page=3

Thus it could not have been issued in 1951.

So now we know that the 1951 Wheaties set is NOT from 1951, it is time to wonder if it is a Wheaties set at all or issued by another company.

I have reached out to Bob Lemke to see if he has any recollections of the genesis of the set over on the memorabilia forum. You may want to follow over there to see what his response is.

Next we have to contact those at SCD who put out the Standard Catalog to make some kind of revision on the listing for the set.

Fred

[Bestdj777]

I don't think Craig has proven anything beyond a reasonable doubt--that is a very high standard and I still have my doubts. Pretty strong evidence that it is not from 1951 though. Owell. Still one of the most attractive cards made of him.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by hcv123

When do any of you first remember seeing these available for sale/auction? When were they added to the standard catalog? Not a stretch to think someone "created these" in the past 20 years. Anyone have one who is or knows a photo paper expert?

Howard,

I had contacted General Mills archives and they stated they were not aware that they issued these. It is not altogether surprising since they archives had started in 1980 and the person I spoke with was certain that they did not have all available knowledge. However, they did have knowledge of issuing a set of color pictures with a metal frame as a separate mail in redemption. You can find these on eBay.

One of the earlier auctions suggested the '51 Wheaties Premiums were "liberated" along with some perfect examples of the boxes, from the issuing company. I do not remember the exact wording, but with some digging I am sure I can find the exact phrasing. This really doesn't pin down the year any better, but it does leave open the possibility that this may not be a General Mills issue.

Z Wheat