Nobody cares about ebay shill bidding but

[Qcards]

To Richard L; not sure where you are coming from re "not getting it".

I have been to Rick's office to drop off items and if you saw the operation in action, you would realize that the guy doens't have time to micro manage bidding action on every lot.

This is more of an eBay problem than a seller issue.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Qcards

To Richard L; not sure where you are coming from re "not getting it".

I have been to Rick's office to drop off items and if you saw the operation in action, you would realize that the guy doens't have time to micro manage bidding action on every lot.

This is more of an eBay problem than a seller issue.

I want to trust Rick too...but how do you explain not taking action against someone that bids over 50% of their bids, on your items, with 93 bid retractions in the last 6 months? Is that the behavior of an honest person?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Qcards

This is more of an eBay problem than a seller issue.

You're wrong, dude! When the seller is made aware of it and does nothing about it, it's definitely a seller issue. The fact that Rick had been made aware (twice now) of Panky shilling his own auctions and does nothing about it speaks volumes of Rick's character.

Edited to add: Not only does Rick do nothing about it, he still lets Panky continue to consign with him.

[nsaddict]

Mike, you really can't speak for his entire operation? And I disagree it's only an ebay issue. There are other prolific sellers on ebay that have cancelled bids with low feedback or high retractions, perhaps you could mention this to Rick? Could you post the items you consigned in the last 90 days? Do you happen to know Joe Pankiewicz?

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Qcards

To Richard L; not sure where you are coming from re "not getting it".

I have been to Rick's office to drop off items and if you saw the operation in action, you would realize that the guy doens't have time to micro manage bidding action on every lot.

This is more of an eBay problem than a seller issue.

Seems like you are either apologizing for, or just ignoring the aspect of shill bidding, as you are ignoring the proof provided of Rick's knowledge of this. (see Panky thread http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=174608, among other examples provided)

Or, just a thought as to another possibility..... You DO get it, but as a consignor, simply enjoy the "fruits of shilling", whether doing it yourself or not?

Nothing motivates people more than a vested interest.

[ullmandds]

agreed...if i were a consigner i probably wouldn't have a problem with more $$$$ in my pocket either?! how'd u feel as a buyer?

[nolemmings]

I have been to Rick's office to drop off items and if you saw the operation in action, you would realize that the guy doens't have time to micro manage bidding action on every lot.

ah yes, the sad plight of many: "I'm too busy counting my money to care how it is I'm making it". Really tugs at your heartstrings, doesn't it?

[tschock]

One thing that doesn't get discussed much is how shill bidding negatively affects other SELLERS as well.

Unlike Leon and other deep pockets who can pay anything (just kidding, Leon), many of us have a budget.

So for example, let's say I have a $500 budget. I am looking at Bob's item A (auction) and Joe's item B (fixed price $300). My main goal is item A, but will buy item B if I still have enough left in my budget. I put in a max bid of $300 for item A (up front or snipe, doesn't matter). If item A gets shilled to over $200, then Joe doesn't sell item B. So Bob's shill bidder just cost Joe a sale. How do you think Joe, as a SELLER, would view this?

This IS different than losing out to non-shill Sam bidding over $200 on item A (and then Joe not selling item B), which is letting the market determine the actual value of Bob's item, and to what extent Joe can compete in a "free" market.

(I'm sure someone could come up with a better example of adverse effect on the seller than this)

[Leon]

Originally Posted by tschock

Unlike Leon and other deep pockets who can pay anything (just kidding, Leon), many of us have a budget.

Uh, the only thing in my pockets are cards. No money, but some cards.....I am as broke as the next guy . But hey, I am having fun....

and to add, all of these retractions and shill bidding are just plain wrong. There is no excuse and no way to justify it. And I am not saying I know for sure it's being done, but it doesn't look good.

[egbeachley]

Since the majority of the problem lies with the bid-and-retract Schiller, why not do something about it? Make a large bid early and watch the Schiller go above then retract to below your bid. Then you retract right before the 12-hours left mark. The shiller will get stuck paying around 15% commission and fees on an overinflated price. A few of those will stop them.

[ALR-bishop]

David---I snipe but would not say shilling does not impact me. Someone can run up the price of their card during the auction or at the end with their own snipe and I pay a higher price if the shill is above other bids against me.

But if I get the card at my snipe price then to my way of thinking it does not matter from a practical bottom line standpoint whether the seller set his price by a BIN, a reserve, a minimum bid, or a shill. The ethics are sure different and I try to avoid auctions where regular shilling occurs, but if I need or want a card,I just set my snipe at what I am willing to pay for it...and let go.

I understand others disagree and I respect their views. I am only speaking for myself after years of buying on ebay and from auction houses

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

But if I get the card at my snipe price then to my way of thinking it does not matter from a practical bottom line standpoint whether the seller set his price by a BIN, a reserve, a minimum bid, or a shill. The ethics are sure different and I try to avoid auctions where regular shilling occurs, but if I need or want a card,I just set my snipe at what I am willing to pay for it...and let go.

I understand others disagree and I respect their views. I am only speaking for myself after years of buying on ebay and from auction houses

+1

I appreciate that shilling is illegal and wrong and if the seller wants a minimum or reserve just set it, but it is less evil than the chip and retract strategy used to 'out' max bids in the netherworld of eBay consignment sales. The only way to participate in the eBay system with any semblance of security is to use snipes to hide my max bid and to try and force the shillers into setting de facto reserves that I can decide whether to meet when i set my snipe rather than throwing down a max bid that the shillers can chip away at until they hit it only to retract to the next lowest level.