Bill Mastro denies widespread fraud in his auctions -- yesterday.

[cincyredlegs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

From Hauls of Shame, probably not worth much....

Sources indicate that the government’s biggest target could be authentication giant Professional Sports Authenticator (PSA), the company that graded the Wagner card for Bruce McNall and Wayne Gretzky after they purchased it at Sotheby’s in 1991. The Wagner was the first card ever graded by the company and its founder David Hall.

Maybe it is pure coincidence, but I wonder if this is why Don Spence is retiring his sets and selling?

Mark

[sports-rings]

be aware that Mastro was not the only prominent auction house employing such slimy measures.

Maybe some do, but let's not lump them all together.

During SCP Auctions famous Dr. J Auction where rings and other items sold for historic highs, I bid on some of his trophies, and against my better judgement, entered maximum bids and went to sleep.

The next day, after the auction had ended, much to my amazement, I had won some awards and trophies at my last bid, and nowhere near my max bids.

Somehow the auction Gods helped me, and the crazy prices realized for Dr. J's rings and other items did not include the items I won.

[drcy]

My idle observation is that some people on Net54 don't have or use common sense (wishful thinking?), and/or fear being sued themselves by posting their true thoughts and insights on a public chatboard.

[bcornell]

Originally Posted by drcy

My idle observation is that some people on Net54 don't have or use common sense (wishful thinking?), and/or fear being sued themselves by posting their true thoughts and insights on a public chatboard.

That may be true for some posters, but I'm positive it's not true for others. It's difficult to kick Bill Mastro and others when they're down when you have no idea whether they defrauded you. Plus, you have only 5 years from the time to file a suit or you're out of luck.

This hobby is drenched with fraudsters, but I won't give up on collecting. Screw them for their awful behavior. I'll outlast them.

Bill

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by bcornell

It's difficult to kick Bill Mastro and others when they're down when you have no idea whether they defrauded you.

Bill, prices have been inflated going forward for every shilled item in a Mastro auction as falsely high values are assigned to these cards. Even if somehow you bid in a Mastro auction and did not get shilled by Bill and the gang, you still felt the bite of their fraud down the road. In addition, the falsely high prices Mastro got in his auctions surely caused other auction houses to shill bid as well or allow consignors to run wild on their lots in an effort to keep up with the high prices and maintain or get new consignors.

[Iron Horse]

How do we know that this is not going on today?? We see it on ebay with bidders that have numerous bid retractions, and i am sure it is happening in other auctions as well.
Guess the big question is how do we assure that the consumer/bidder is protected in these auctions??
Should there be an independent council that monitors the big auctions?
Should the duration of bidding be shortened to 2-3 days max not 5 weeks?

Looking forward to other suggestions??
Maybe some auction houses can even suggest how do we make sure that our bids are not being shilled.

[HRBAKER]

How do we know that this is not going on today??

If you suspect it, stop participating.
Why would they stop if we don't.
Therein lies the problem.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Bill, prices have been inflated going forward for every shilled item in a Mastro auction as falsely high values are assigned to these cards. Even if somehow you bid in a Mastro auction and did not get shilled by Bill and the gang, you still felt the bite of their fraud down the road. In addition, the falsely high prices Mastro got in his auctions surely caused other auction houses to shill bid as well or allow consignors to run wild on their lots in an effort to keep up with the high prices and maintain or get new consignors.

Big +1

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by cincyredlegs

Maybe it is pure coincidence, but I wonder if this is why Don Spence is retiring his sets and selling?

Mark

If you don't mind me asking, where was it announced that he was retiring and selling his sets?

[cincyredlegs]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

If you don't mind me asking, where was it announced that he was retiring and selling his sets?

Here is the thread that talks about it on the CU Forum.

http://forums.collectors.com/message...eyword1=spence

[drcy]

That the Wagner was rumored/alleged/accused of being trimmed was the about worst kept secret in the hobby for years. It ranked up there with 'ESPN chatboard talk Barry Bonds might have used PEDs.' It was openly talked about, even joked about, on this board and even the PSA board. Keith O. made snide remarks. To now say that this hobby bigwig or that hobby bigwig didn't know about these allegations is silly. That's why I posted my 'lack of common sense post.' If a 17 year old collector in small town Oklahoma heard stories the card was trimmed, it's hard to believe an industry insider was ignorant of the stories. Or, some might suggest, that they buyers didn't know.

The card was, at least for some, a commodity. Like hog bellies. If it brought a return, it brought a return.

PSA exists today as service for resellers and investors. That's what they are, that's how the describe themselves. They overtly advertise the financial benefits of getting your collectibles holdered by them. Average Joe eBay sellers on the CU board ponder aloud if it's worth their financial/resale investment to get such and such card graded-- or perhaps that issue is better to be graded by Beckett.

If you asked me what is the #1 thing I dislike about the art and collectibles industry, it's easy for me to answer: This money stuff. I'm no socialist, I understand collectibles have financial value, I've resold collectibles, if someone wants $10,000 for his baseball bat that's fine by me, if an auction house wants a 15% profit return in the next year I understand that. But turning the hobby into Money magazine, NYSE, investing clubs, is an entire turnoff. It's Donald Trump tacky. It's QVC. It's bad ESPN programming. There's a reason I don't own a television.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by drcy

There's a reason I don't own a television.

That is what makes you a socialist in my book!

[drcy]

Originally Posted by Deertick

That is what makes you a socialist in my book!

Just for the record, I watched a 1930s Laurel and Hardy comedy on my laptop last night.

My vote for best/favorite Laurel and Hardy short (sitcom length) is 1931's 'Chickens Come Home.' Hardy is a married big cty politician and businessman running for mayor, when his past, in the form of an old gold digging girlfriend, enters his office. Blackmail, high society chaos and even gunfire follows. Co-stars vintage comic greats James Finlayson (butler), Thelma Todd (Hardy's blonde wife) and Mae Bush (the brunette femme fatale-- below). Available for free on youtube.