An Open Letter to Bill Mastro

[jcmtiger]

I won several auction items in Mastro auctions and never put a max bid for the items. I guess I'm one of the few that was never shilled. I'm serious about this, never had a problem with shill bidding. This post does not address any items that were not real or accurately described.

Joe

[Mark]

Well, I recall a couple of items that I remember sold for my max bid. But since I have always considered them good buys, I have never felt too steamed about it. Still, if they have proof that he stole from bidders, I don't see what the question is.

[slidekellyslide]

I could never seem to win anything from Mastro...always got outbid.

[sports-rings]

Well, I recall a couple of items that I remember sold for my max bid. But since I have always considered them good buys, I have never felt too steamed about it.

i just read Peter Nash's blog entry on this matter at haulsofshame

Someone posted a great line in the comments section: Even if you were never part of a shill bid, you still lose. (Guess he means shill bidding drives up pricing for the entire hobby)

On a releated note, I hate Hunt Auction's phantom bidding on behalf of the consigner. Maybe someone can explain the difference to me of this practice vs. shill bidding!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by sports-rings

i just read Peter Nash's blog entry on this matter at houlsofshame

Someone posted a great line in the comments section: Even if you were never part of a shill bid, you still lose. (Guess he means shill bidding drives up pricing for the entire hobby)

On a releated note, I hate Hunt Auction's phantom bidding on behalf of the consigner. Maybe someone can explain the difference to me of this practice vs. shill bidding!

I seem to always pay my ceiling bid for Hunt items. It didn't used to be that way. If they are going to shill me in the future (if I even participate in any more of their auctions), they will have to actually outbid me - no more ceiling bids for me.

If I ever got shilled at Mastro, the shilling still never approached my ceiling bids, on average. I got a lot of great deals.

[sports-rings]

I just want to be clear, I am not accusing Hunt of shill bidding. They have a process where they bid for the consigner until the minimum is met (it's in their auction rules).

if you are a phone bidder during a live auction, you have no idea if you are bidding against a live bidder or Hunt on behalf of their consigner.

I call this Phantom bidding and I no longer wish to bid in their live auctions

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

I won several auction items in Mastro auctions and never put a max bid for the items. I guess I'm one of the few that was never shilled. I'm serious about this, never had a problem with shill bidding. This post does not address any items that were not real or accurately described.

Joe

So what if you never put in a max bid and were never shilled. The controversy is over those who did put in max bids and were allegedly shilled. You posted the same information in the other thread, and I don't see what is the point.

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by cyseymour

So what if you never put in a max bid and were never shilled. The controversy is over those who did put in max bids and were allegedly shilled. You posted the same information in the other thread, and I don't see what is the point.

Sorry, I didn't know I was the only one not able to post to both boards.

Joe

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

I won several auction items in Mastro auctions and never put a max bid for the items. I guess I'm one of the few that was never shilled. I'm serious about this, never had a problem with shill bidding. This post does not address any items that were not real or accurately described.

Joe

Joe, respectfully, you couldn't be more wrong. What if you were bidding against someone, topping each other, and later you found out it was Bill Mastro from his office computer? Or what if you were bidding a price you felt comfortable with based on prior sales -- only to find out later that Bill and Doug ran up those earlier prices? You have no idea if you've never been affected by shill bidding, you couldn't possibly know with certainty that you have not unless you've seen all of his bidding records -- the ones that he didn't destroy.

I'm honestly stunned at how badly people want to convince themselves that Mastro didn't rip them off, even when he admitted under oath in court that for many years his auctions were rigged.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Joe, respectfully, you couldn't be more wrong. What if you were bidding against someone, topping each other, and later you found out it was Bill Mastro from his office computer? Or what if you were bidding a price you felt comfortable with based on prior sales -- only to find out later that Bill and Doug ran up those earlier prices? You have no idea if you've never been affected by shill bidding, you couldn't possibly know with certainty that you have not unless you've seen all of his bidding records -- the ones that he didn't destroy.

I'm honestly stunned at how badly people want to convince themselves that Mastro didn't rip them off, even when he admitted under oath in court that for many years his auctions were rigged.

Absolutely.

[cyseymour]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Joe, respectfully, you couldn't be more wrong. What if you were bidding against someone, topping each other, and later you found out it was Bill Mastro from his office computer? Or what if you were bidding a price you felt comfortable with based on prior sales -- only to find out later that Bill and Doug ran up those earlier prices? You have no idea if you've never been affected by shill bidding, you couldn't possibly know with certainty that you have not unless you've seen all of his bidding records -- the ones that he didn't destroy.

I'm honestly stunned at how badly people want to convince themselves that Mastro didn't rip them off, even when he admitted under oath in court that for many years his auctions were rigged.

This is true, but certainly not putting in a max bid would greatly reduce the odds of being shilled. But whether this one particular bidder was or was not shilled is not the point - the issue is whether shill bidding occurred at all.

[CW]

This is a great open letter and very well written, but rather than addressing it to Bill himself (who will possibly never read it) perhaps it would be better suited for the judge handing out his sentence?

(posted by Jeff in the other thread)

Judge Ronald A. Guzman
219 South Dearborn Street
Chicago, Illinois 60604

The case name is U.S. v. Mastro, 1:12-cr-00567.

[e107collector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Joe, respectfully, you couldn't be more wrong. What if you were bidding against someone, topping each other, and later you found out it was Bill Mastro from his office computer? Or what if you were bidding a price you felt comfortable with based on prior sales -- only to find out later that Bill and Doug ran up those earlier prices? You have no idea if you've never been affected by shill bidding, you couldn't possibly know with certainty that you have not unless you've seen all of his bidding records -- the ones that he didn't destroy.

I'm honestly stunned at how badly people want to convince themselves that Mastro didn't rip them off, even when he admitted under oath in court that for many years his auctions were rigged.

Jeff, well stated.