Implications of "cleaning up the hobby?"

[ullmandds]

It IS a delicate ecosystem...this hobby...isn't it!!!!!

I'm starting to feel like that dude who used to be on here who was eventually limited to 10 posts/day...responding to everyones' posts!!!!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

It IS a delicate ecosystem...this hobby...isn't it!!!!!

I'm starting to feel like that dude who used to be on here who was eventually limited to 10 posts/day...responding to everyones' posts!!!!

Don't worry about it Pete. You will never catch me and probably not Barry either, as far as number of posts go.
As for cleansing the hobby.... It would be great and I think it is better today than it has been in the last 10-15 yrs. Status quo though regardless of cleansing or not, imo...

[barrysloate]

I don't think I will stay in second place for long....don't post as much as I used to.

[the 'stache]

It took me forever to jump into the pre-war and vintage eras for this very reason. If I was going to be spending a good chunk of change on really old cardboard, I wanted to make sure that I knew what I was doing, that I was equipped to buy safely. Without this place, and the help I've received from all of you, I honestly don't know if I would have ever done it. And that's really a shame, because even though I've just really started, I'm having a blast.

Pete, I know this is a hypothetical, so I'll just say that I'd love to see some of the bad element removed from the hobby, but at the same time, I know now that if I exercise due diligence, and buy from reputable sellers, my chances of getting burned drops dramatically. Then, when I receive my cards, I always give them a good looking over. So, in being proactive, I'm avoiding a lot of the people that would try to scam me, or other enthusiasts.

Would the value of the cards I have and will buy drop? Maybe. I actually think that if the market were cleansed you'd see more people come back, and demand would go up. Maybe I wouldn't be able to get the cards I want at all. Imagine how many other people out there who love baseball cards would love to own a Ty Cobb, or a Walter Johnson tobacco card. It's possible you'd see people leave again for a very different reason: not enough supply to meet demand.

It is indeed a very delicate balance. I wish I could tell some of the people that would love to jump into pre-war and vintage to come here, and learn, but at the same time, I realize that in doing so, there would be more people wanting to buy the same cards I want.

[cincyredlegs]

Great topic. Let's compare the evils of the hobby today vs the late 80's/early 90's:

Common

People trimmed cards
People re-colored cards
People counterfeited cards
People pressed out creases
People re-built corners
People were un-ethical
People cheated people


Different

The value of cards

I guess what I am saying is that there always have been this element in the hobby and probably always will be. The main difference I see is the value of the cards have increased exponentially and people have more to lose.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't do everything we can to try and clean the hobby.

Mark

[HRBAKER]

Cleaning up the hobby would involve denying yourself that which you want. That's where the first breakdown occurs.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Cleaning up the hobby would involve denying yourself that which you want. That's where the first breakdown occurs.

Only if you have nearly unlimited play money.

Those of us with tighter budgets are always denying ourselves the stuff we want. So no big change there.


Totally clearing house would be impossible.

I do think there's less smalltime fraud now than before. Mostly because knowledge is easier to come by. The days of people trying to pass off Dover reprints as original at a show are hopefully gone.

I do think that without TPG a lot of the money will leave. The more investment driven, or those with money but not necessarily the time to learn what's good or not probably wouldn't spend without the third party opinion.

And ultimately things would revert to the early-mid 80's. Some cards wouldn't become available without the higher prices. It's one thing to keep an odd family heirloom even if you're not all that interested. It's a far different thing to do that when that money could pay for a car, house, or college.

Would the Black Swamp cards be on the market if they were worth $2 each instead of a few thousand each?
Would the Nagurskis just found be on the market if they were $10 cards?

Probably not.

The internet has changed things so much it's hard to describe.
Maybe this.
As a fairly casual collector the number of tougher T206 backs I had chances to buy between 1977 and maybe 1994
Drum 1
Uzit 0
Broadleaf 460 0
Red Hindu 0

That's all I saw back then. Granted I only went to local shows, although we had some big ones. And didn't really look all that hard. But I just didn't see any.

Since roughly 1998 when I joined Ebay.
Drum 5-6?
Uzit 5-6? Maybe more
Broadleaf 460 2?
Red Hindu Quite a few with the recent batch in a big auction, which I usually didn't even look at till recently.

The money makes getting the cards tougher for many of us. But it also makes it possible for more of us.

Unfortunately it also brings the bad guys.

Steve B

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Cleaning up the hobby would involve denying yourself that which you want. That's where the first breakdown occurs.

I want to echo this view. People are very quick to complain about the fraud in the hobby, but when asked to refrain from giving business to those they accuse of fraud, refuse to do so. To paraphrase what one poster once send, "getting the stuff trumps all." It seems to me that a very effective way to reduce hobby fraud is to put out of business those who engage in it, which can only happen if people stop doing business with them. It would also send a clear signal to anyone else who might be considering in engaging in such activity that fraud is not a good business model.

What I will be curious to see is if, hypothetically, stuff starts to get out exposing fraud at particular AHs, will people stop doing business with them? If not, then for those people who continue to do business with these AHs, IMO they have no credibility to complain about fraud in the hobby.

[autocut]

Integrity and greed are a huge issue in the hobby. To dump money into speculation is a big gamble. Even graders could be wrong.