Opinion on Mantle Inscription

[shelly]

Mike youare a sick man. Go back to Todd he will hold your hand and tell you everying is good.
Oh by the way.I was gonna let this go, but how about an answer on this one too. You said Collectibles of the stars didn’t have LOAs in 1997 and that the 1997 LOA for the Mantle posted by Chris was a forgery. So, how about this 1997 Cheetah the Chimp LOA from Collectibles of the Stars? Is this a forgery ? Its dated 1997. And you say the Cheetah signing was some joke but did you know the Chimp wasn’t Cheetah and was never in a Tarzan movie and that anyone who bought your Cheetah signed photos got ripped off with the signature of some unknown chimp? The real Cheetah was dead for years, read the Washington Post. Help us on this one. Those are your signatures on the LOA, or are those forgeries too? You’re so well respected people are forging your name as much as Mantle I guess.
chimp.jpg
By the way is that your signiture on top or was that forged as well. Hold on a second. It was the CIA at the door telling me to stop.

[ss]

Has anyone ever seen worse spelling than that of Shelly and Mike? Cheetah the Chimp spells better.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by ss

Has anyone ever seen worse spelling than that of Shelly and Mike? Cheetah the Chimp spells better.

Are you aware of the fact that Shelly has an affliction called dyslexia?

So tell us, what does your comment have anything to do with this thread?

Also, I didn't see you post anything constructive here, Steve; just like Westsiders with his "hook, line and sinker" comment.

[shelly]

Steve, just to let you know it is called Shelleez that has now been accepted on this site for a long time. I see things backwards and spell things the way I think they should be. I also think that I said what I wanted but the words are missing. Spell check does not help. Like Chris said do you have any thing to add expcept being insulting. Hope this never happens to anyone in your faimly.
The one thing I do know because of this. Bad autographs. How about you?

[Westsiders]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Are you aware of the fact that Shelly has an affliction called dyslexia?

So tell us, what does your comment have anything to do with this thread?

Also, I didn't see you post anything constructive here, Steve; just like Westsiders with his "hook, line and sinker" comment.

I stand behind my comment of hook, line and sinker...as Mike has undoubtedly "baited" you guys (Chris and Shelly) into this back and forth. And while I agree that it wasn't necessarily a constructive comment, I don't understand the comparison to the ridiculous comment made by "SS" (I also thanked Shelly, outside of this link, for sharing his knowledge with newer guys like me).

And Mike, please don't misinterpret my comment as being in any way, shape, or form in support of your position. Your touting of PAAS is laughable....and your latest personal attacks against Shelly are gross. It would be the equivalent of people attacking your personal appearance in the photos that you've posted. Such comments just don't belong here. Best of luck.

Sco.tt Rom.ero

[joed25]

Originally Posted by Westsiders

I stand behind my comment of hook, line and sinker...as Mike has undoubtedly "baited" you guys (Chris and Shelly) into this back and forth. And while I agree that it wasn't necessarily a constructive comment, I don't understand the comparison to the ridiculous comment made by "SS" (I also thanked Shelly, outside of this link, for sharing his knowledge with newer guys like me).

And Mike, please don't misinterpret my comment as being in any way, shape, or form in support of your position. Your touting of PAAS is laughable....and your latest personal attacks against Shelly are gross. It would be the equivalent of people attacking your personal appearance in the photos that you've posted. Such comments just don't belong here. Best of luck.

Again, I am not convinced the PSA letter that Mike posted is real. Looks like a copy to me and anyone could doctor that up. I'd like to see a color scan of the original PSA letter.

[Michael Frost]

Originally Posted by joed25

Again, I am not convinced the PSA letter that Mike posted is real. Looks like a copy to me and anyone could doctor that up. I'd like to see a color scan of the original PSA letter.

Joed25,
The post was not meant to be a knock on PSA/DNA or JSA. I have nothing at all against them, and was just trying to prove a point to answer a few questions.
The COA is 100% authentic and there has been no doctoring of photos nor Certs.
I have a large file of over 6000 Mickey Mantle certed items by third party authenticators, auction houses and dealers. It is something in most cases I would never share or use with the public.
If you would like a clear e-mail of the actual COA for you own peace of mind, please contact me via my website www.paasaa.com and I will sent it to you.
I feel that this Thread has gotten out of hand and is going all over the place. Sorry

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Michael Frost

I feel that this Thread has gotten out of hand and is going all over the place. Sorry

This thread hasn't gotten out of hand at all.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Westsiders

I stand behind my comment of hook, line and sinker...as Mike has undoubtedly "baited" you guys (Chris and Shelly) into this back and forth. And while I agree that it wasn't necessarily a constructive comment, I don't understand the comparison to the ridiculous comment made by "SS" (I also thanked Shelly, outside of this link, for sharing his knowledge with newer guys like me).

And Mike, please don't misinterpret my comment as being in any way, shape, or form in support of your position. Your touting of PAAS is laughable....and your latest personal attacks against Shelly are gross. It would be the equivalent of people attacking your personal appearance in the photos that you've posted. Such comments just don't belong here. Best of luck.

Sco.tt Rom.ero

Scott, Mike didn't "bait" either Shelly or myself. There was no "bait."

Both sets of Mantle/Martin sigs are bad.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by ss

Has anyone ever seen worse spelling than that of Shelly and Mike? Cheetah the Chimp spells better.

Being compared to a Chimp is so disgusting. I have no idea who you are but I will say that your comments do not belong here or anywhere else. I have never said this before but you should be suspended.

[RichardSimon]

Steve, that was really uncalled for and added zero to this thread.
If comments are going to be made by members on this thread, at least let them be relevant to the topic.
It has long been known by most here that Shelly has dyslexia.
Let us try to keep the posts here relevant to the topics at hand.

[joed25]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Steve, that was really uncalled for and added zero to this thread.
If comments are going to be made by members on this thread, at least let them be relevant to the topic.
It has long been known by most here that Shelly has dyslexia.
Let us try to keep the posts here relevant to the topics at hand.

+1. That was really uncalled for Steve.

[Michael Frost]

Originally Posted by ss

Has anyone ever seen worse spelling than that of Shelly and Mike? Cheetah the Chimp spells better.

This does not really look like the spelling or grammar of a rocket scientist
ss
Steve S.
St.eve S@lem Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Baltimore


I think it's good. Looks like 1970s style signature. Is very close to 2 that I have, one of which was signed in-person in mid-70's. Am curious what you guys don't like about it?

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by shelly

Mike youare a sick man. Go back to Todd he will hold your hand and tell you everying is good.
Oh by the way.I was gonna let this go, but how about an answer on this one too. You said Collectibles of the stars didn’t have LOAs in 1997 and that the 1997 LOA for the Mantle posted by Chris was a forgery. So, how about this 1997 Cheetah the Chimp LOA from Collectibles of the Stars? Is this a forgery ? Its dated 1997. And you say the Cheetah signing was some joke but did you know the Chimp wasn’t Cheetah and was never in a Tarzan movie and that anyone who bought your Cheetah signed photos got ripped off with the signature of some unknown chimp? The real Cheetah was dead for years, read the Washington Post. Help us on this one. Those are your signatures on the LOA, or are those forgeries too? You’re so well respected people are forging your name as much as Mantle I guess.
Attachment 119258
By the way is that your signiture on top or was that forged as well. Hold on a second. It was the CIA at the door telling me to stop.

Let's take a quick look at the Wiki page for Cheeta, which contains a large list of all the different chimps associated with the Character.

From looking through the list, I would assume THIS is the one who was used for that signing.

"Cheetah-Mike (also known as Org), a male chimpanzee owned by Suncoast Primate Sanctuary after being donated from Noell's Chimp Farm in Palm Harbor, FL. Alleged to have been born about 1931 (claimed age in February 2008 was 77), to have been acquired from the estate of Johnny Weissmuller in 1957, and to have been "one of the original 'Cheetahs' from Johnny Weissmuller's Tarzan movies." It has been speculated that this chimp, if he indeed has any connection to Weissmuller, may actually have come from a Florida tourist attraction the actor once launched that included chimps, rather than having appeared in any of his Tarzan films. According to journalist Andrew Woods, this Cheeta was also known as Org. Died in Palm Harbor, Florida, of kidney failure on December 24, 2011."

[Michael Frost]

Originally Posted by novakjr

Let's take a quick look at the Wiki page for Cheeta, which contains a large list of all the different chimps associated with the Character.

From looking through the list, I would assume THIS is the one who was used for that signing.

"Cheetah-Mike (also known as Org), a male chimpanzee owned by Suncoast Primate Sanctuary after being donated from Noell's Chimp Farm in Palm Harbor, FL. Alleged to have been born about 1931 (claimed age in February 2008 was 77), to have been acquired from the estate of Johnny Weissmuller in 1957, and to have been "one of the original 'Cheetahs' from Johnny Weissmuller's Tarzan movies." It has been speculated that this chimp, if he indeed has any connection to Weissmuller, may actually have come from a Florida tourist attraction the actor once launched that included chimps, rather than having appeared in any of his Tarzan films. According to journalist Andrew Woods, this Cheeta was also known as Org. Died in Palm Harbor, Florida, of kidney failure on December 24, 2011."

No I am sorry that is a different Chimpanzee. The Cheeta that my partner Michael Wehrmann had the private signing with belong to Dan Westfall who also signed the COA. The Cheeta that hand signed the autographed photographs was living in Palm Springs, Calif and not in Palm Harbor Florida. The Chimp that signed the COA and the photos was Jiggs IV.

Cheeta/Jiggs IV as a Celebrity
In 1991, whatever the truth of his origins and prior life, Cheeta/Jiggs IV was given by Gentry to his distant cousin Don Westfall, the current caretaker. Gentry died two years later. In Westfall's care, Cheeta lived at a primate sanctuary called Creative Habitats and Enrichment for Endangered and Threatened Apes (or CHEETA) in Palm Springs, California, where he reportedly watched television, made abstract paintings which were sold to benefit primate-related charities, and often watched "his" old films with his grandson, Jeeter. He also leafed through books and "played" the piano.[39][40]

His birthdays, calculated from the date of his supposed 1932 arrival in the United States, were regularly celebrated. In 2006, coinciding with his "74th" birthday, Cheeta received an award for his supposed film career from the International Film Festival of Peniscola Comedy. Later that year, the 4 October 2006, edition of the Palm Springs newspaper, The Desert Sun, reported that he had received his first-ever visit from famed primatologist Jane Goodall the previous day. His "75th" birthday was covered by National Geographic.[39][40] His "76th" birthday was celebrated on 9 April 2008, at his "Casa de Cheeta" in Palm Springs at an event hosted by Dan Westfall and Diane Weissmuller, (Johnny Weissmuller, Jr.'s widow). The press and many Palm Springs celebrities attended.

On the basis of his apparently fictitious history, Cheeta was cited by the Guinness Book of World Records as the world's oldest non-human primate.[39]

A literary agent was hired on his behalf for his ghost-written autobiography, Me Cheeta, published in the U.K. in October 2008.[38] The American edition was published on March 3, 2009.

Here's an update to Cheeta's unusual story. Several years ago, Dan started working with a writer on Cheeta's biography. Dan wanted someone to tell the story of Cheeta's life as the world's oldest chimpanzee and as one of the original chimpanzees appearing in the old Tarzan movies. By December 2007, the writer's research had unexpectedly revealed that our Cheeta is unlikely to be as old as we'd thought, although he is clearly old. It is also difficult to determine which movies, if any, our Cheeta may have been in.
It appears that the facts of our Cheeta's past will almost certainly remain a Hollywood mystery.

[novakjr]

Sorry Michael. I copied and pasted the wrong bio from the page. My apologies..

[ss]

Sincere apology to Shelly and Mike. Merely my inappropriate attempt to lighten the atmosphere. Please accept my sincere apology.

Steve

[Michael Frost]

Originally Posted by ss

Sincere apology to Shelly and Mike. Merely my inappropriate attempt to lighten the atmosphere. Please accept my sincere apology.

Steve

Thank you and accepted by me. I am sorry as well..

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by ss

Sincere apology to Shelly and Mike. Merely my inappropriate attempt to lighten the atmosphere. Please accept my sincere apology.

Steve

Well done Steve.

[shelly]

[QUOTE=ss;1199079]Sincere apology to Shelly and Mike. Merely my inappropriate attempt to lighten the atmosphere. Please accept my sincere apology.

Steve[/QUOTE

Accepted

[Runscott]

I have discussed Mantle signatures with Shelly many times, and he's always impressed me with his knowledge. He's made a few mistakes, but he also accepts that publicly and moves on. Being willing to learn from your mistakes at his age is a rarity. Much more common with 'experts' in this hobby to have their knowledge frozen in place by their massive egos.

I don't know Mike Frost, but I'm sort of surprised at some of his analyses of Mantle autographs in this thread. I say "sort of surprised" because I know that having an eye for autographs involves a talent that some people have, and some people don't. If you don't have it, you can be personal friends with someone for a lifetime, and look at a million of their signatures, and you will still make more mistakes than someone who has a better eye than you.

I also don't get why PSA and JSA keep getting thrown into the argument - everyone in this thread who has ever given an opinion on autographs knows more than either of them. I have no reason to believe that Mike Frost is any worse than either of those companies.