What if "the Flying Dutchman" hadn't said "no"?

[slidekellyslide]

I don't think we know for certain that Wagner said "no" do we? He died in 1955 and by that time it was known that the Wagner card was a very hard card to come by...it would have been cool if Jefferson Burdick, Lionel Carter or any of the other hobby pioneers had asked him what the deal was?

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I don't think we know for certain that Wagner said "no" do we? He died in 1955 and by that time it was known that the Wagner card was a very hard card to come by...it would have been cool if Jefferson Burdick, Lionel Carter or any of the other hobby pioneers had asked him what the deal was?

You're right, Dan, we don't know for sure. The speculation has been that he wanted more money, or that he didn't want his likeness on a tobacco card because it could influence children. But hasn't he been on other tobacco cards without there being any issue?

Unless some document surfaces in the future (something like a "cease and desist" letter to ATC from Wagner's attorney), we may never know for sure. But doesn't not knowing for sure add to the card's mystique?

Steve and Greg, I'd thought about which Ruth card could take the place of the Wagner. To be honest, I'm a little surprised there isn't more press about it when Ruth's appeal is taken into consideration. He's still the most popular athlete in American professional sports history, and that Ruth is actually rarer than the white border Wagner issue, is it not?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I don't think we know for certain that Wagner said "no" do we? He died in 1955 and by that time it was known that the Wagner card was a very hard card to come by...it would have been cool if Jefferson Burdick, Lionel Carter or any of the other hobby pioneers had asked him what the deal was?

Given that he carried that strip with his T206 card on it, in his pocket, it makes you wonder.

But if we assume he did say "no", then if he hadn't, I would expect that in addition to his portrait becoming run-of-the-mill, we also would have seen a few more poses - perhaps another portrait with a different background color, and maybe a couple of action poses.

The T206 Plank would then have become the holy grail. And regarding the 'blah-ness' of the card's story, I suspect it would have become a bit more dramatic over the years, especially since it wouldn't have had the Wagner to compete with.

[Sean]

I agree with Steve that the Baltimore News is too rare (and also too recent. It doesn't have the history of the other rare cards).

I think that the 1933 Lajoie deserves some consideration as well.