pwcc (part two)

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The current high bidder on PWCC 52 Topps Mantle. I don't get how someone retracts 28 bids in 6 months, but perhaps someone can enlighten me.

Bid History: Details


Bidding Details

Bidder Information
Bidder: -***o ( private )
Feedback: 100% Positive
Item description: Item Title: 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle #311 PSA 6 EXMT (PWCC)
Bids on this item: 1
30-Day Summary
Total bids: 81
Items bid on: 25
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 60% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 28

I sell about 500-1000 items on ebay per month (non baseball) and get a lot of bid retractions from people who bid multiple times. They are doing it to see what the high bidder's max is, and once they go over it they retract their bid. Sometimes these bidders will bid at the end of the auction and sometimes they won't. It's not shill bidding because I own the items...I don't think we can say every time we see activity like this that it is shill bidding, there just seem to be a lot of idiots out there who bid like this. And ebay has made it easier for these idiots to do this too with the "Increase your bid" button. I have ebay connected to my iphone so I hear it when it happens.

[Wayward99]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I sell about 500-1000 items on ebay per month (non baseball) and get a lot of bid retractions from people who bid multiple times. They are doing it to see what the high bidder's max is, and once they go over it they retract their bid. Sometimes these bidders will bid at the end of the auction and sometimes they won't. It's not shill bidding because I own the items...I don't think we can say every time we see activity like this that it is shill bidding, there just seem to be a lot of idiots out there who bid like this. And ebay has made it easier for these idiots to do this too with the "Increase your bid" button. I have ebay connected to my iphone so I hear it when it happens.

Agreed - I've only been selling for a little over a year (all baseball cards, different eras) and I've seen some head-scratching activity - including one bidder, the first bidder mind you, place 10 separate bids in rapid fashion on the same item. As mentioned above I think the 'Increase your bid' button, as well as starting items at $.99, skews some of the metrics when it comes to analyzing bid activity on a given item or with a particular seller (% bid with seller, as an example). The number/volume of bids can be very high with $.99 auctions and eBay's bid increments.

That said, in almost all instances where I've had a bid retraction on an item I've blocked that bidder; the few exceptions have been when a bidder immediately reached out to me to apologize for a fat finger, or when it was the first bid/early bid with an inconsequential dollar amount and the bidder put in a new bid that was conceivably more in line with their original intention (ex: $5 instead of the original $50). That's just been my experience and approach since I know that bid retractions on the surface leave a sour taste in people's mouths.

[bobbyw8469]

That said, in almost all instances where I've had a bid retraction on an item I've blocked that bidder; the few exceptions have been when a bidder immediately reached out to me to apologize for a fat finger, or when it was the first bid/early bid with an inconsequential dollar amount and the bidder put in a new bid that was conceivably more in line with their original intention (ex: $5 instead of the original $50). That's just been my experience and approach since I know that bid retractions on the surface leave a sour taste in people's mouths.

+1. I always block bid retractors, especially when they are high bidder for a couple of days, they think they are going to win, so they retract their bid with the "entered the wrong amount" excuse, and do not rebid.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I sell about 500-1000 items on ebay per month (non baseball) and get a lot of bid retractions from people who bid multiple times. They are doing it to see what the high bidder's max is, and once they go over it they retract their bid. Sometimes these bidders will bid at the end of the auction and sometimes they won't.

I can understand why a bidder would do that based on what you're saying(although I think it's unethical). However, you have to realize how that makes you look as a seller. I beilve you, Dan, that you're not shilling your own items, but to an eBay bidder it may look otherwise.

I rarely sell anything on eBay anymore but, if I were a volume seller and I had bidders retracting their bids, I would ban them as bidders.

You have to look at this from a buyer's perspective. If I'm high bidder on an item and another bidder places multiple bids to expose my proxy and then retracts his last bid, to me I feel like I have been shilled up. When that happens to me as a bidder, I retract my bid as well because I think the seller is up to something.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I can understand why a bidder would do that based on what you're saying(although I think it's unethical). However, you have to realize how that makes you look as a seller. I beilve you, Dan, that you're not shilling your own items, but to an eBay bidder it may look otherwise.

I rarely sell anything on eBay anymore but, if I were a volume seller and I had bidders retracting their bids, I would ban them as bidders.

You have to look at this from a buyer's perspective. If I'm high bidder on an item and another bidder places multiple bids to expose my proxy and then retracts his last bid, to me I feel like I have been shilled up. When that happens to me as a bidder, I retract my bid as well because I think the seller is up to something.

I have had a few people accuse me of shill bidding in these instances...I just give them the ebay ID of the person who did it and tell them to contact ebay.

And I love the "entered wrong amount" excuse of people who bid 20 times and then retract their bid.

edited to add: I have also recently found out there are local dealers intent on wrecking some of my auctions...my brother and I recently started attending the state surplus auctions...it can be tricky listing some of the items you get there, we had to re-list a few items multiple times before finally getting a real bidder. Ebay needs to make it much harder to set up an account with them.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I have had a few people accuse me of shill bidding in these instances...I just give them the ebay ID of the person who did it and tell them to contact ebay.

And I love the "entered wrong amount" excuse of people who bid 20 times and then retract their bid.

Dan, agree with all that you wrote -- it's certainly not the auctioneer's fault in all these instances (if any).

By the way, do you doctor your scans or look the other way as your consignors shill bid?

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Dan, agree with all that you wrote -- it's certainly not the auctioneer's fault in all these instances (if any).

By the way, do you doctor your scans or look the other way as your consignors shill bid?

I don't know how to doctor a scan, but I did have one consignor (a friend) who would give me an item or two per month to list and I noticed he was bidding on his own item...I put the brakes on that quickly.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I don't know how to doctor a scan, but I did have one consignor (a friend) who would give me an item or two per month to list and I noticed he was bidding on his own item...I put the brakes on that quickly.

Wow, that must have taken you months to accomplish.

PS -- do you love your significant other? If so, how much? Like a little or a lot?

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Wow, that must have taken you months to accomplish.

PS -- do you love your significant other? If so, how much? Like a little or a lot?

Well, I certainly don't want to end up in San Quentin if that's where these leading questions are taking me.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I can understand why a bidder would do that based on what you're saying(although I think it's unethical). However, you have to realize how that makes you look as a seller. I beilve you, Dan, that you're not shilling your own items, but to an eBay bidder it may look otherwise.

I rarely sell anything on eBay anymore but, if I were a volume seller and I had bidders retracting their bids, I would ban them as bidders.

You have to look at this from a buyer's perspective. If I'm high bidder on an item and another bidder places multiple bids to expose my proxy and then retracts his last bid, to me I feel like I have been shilled up. When that happens to me as a bidder, I retract my bid as well because I think the seller is up to something.

I've been in that very uncomfortable position of some wacko's crazy bidding strategy making me look bad as a seller several times. So far, it's worked out okay in that I was able to give enough information to whoever was accusing me of shill bidding to satisfy them that it was indeed just a wacko and not me, and I've actually gained a couple of good hobby friends over the course of working things out. In every case though, I banned the wacko from any further bidding, just as I would ban someone from my physical store who came in shouting "HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY" at the top of their lungs the whole time and rubbed everyone's head as they left. Some things you just have to put a stop to because they are disruptive and make everyone uncomfortable, even if the wacko actually makes a purchase and technically hasn't broken any rules.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

In every case though, I banned the wacko from any further bidding, just as I would ban someone from my physical store who came in shouting "HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY HEY" at the top of their lungs the whole time and rubbed everyone's head as they left.

What if it was Fat Albert?

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by calvindog

What if it was Fat Albert?

I would probably be a little more lenient, but even Al needs to keep his hands to himself

[thehoodedcoder]

blahzy blazy blah blah blah.

do something about it. start a civil suit against ebay for schill bidding.

kevin