pwcc (part two)

[Runscott]

Keith, Kevin, Ronald,

Would you prefer that we ignore problems we see, unless we can legally prosecute? The law isn't perfect and ebay is shielding its sellers in order to maximize profit. But despite this, we can still point out problems that we see and let our forum members react as they deem appropriate.

For instance, as a result of this discussion I might decide that Brent's actions are fine, and bid or consign with him. Or I might decide that he's a cheat who is using ebay's policies of shielding fraud, to make as much money as he can while he can. But at least we have discussed it...in a DISCUSSION FORUM... which to me seems very appropriate.

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Keith, Kevin, Ronald,

Would you prefer that we ignore problems we see, unless we can legally prosecute? The law isn't perfect and ebay is shielding its sellers in order to maximize profit. But despite this, we can still point out problems that we see and let our forum members react as they deem appropriate.

For instance, as a result of this discussion I might decide that Brent's actions are fine, and bid or consign with him. Or I might decide that he's a cheat who is using ebay's policies of shielding fraud, to make as much money as he can while he can. But at least we have discussed it...in a DISCUSSION FORUM... which to me seems very appropriate.

+1

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Keith, Kevin, Ronald,

Would you prefer that we ignore problems we see, unless we can legally prosecute? The law isn't perfect and ebay is shielding its sellers in order to maximize profit. But despite this, we can still point out problems that we see and let our forum members react as they deem appropriate.

For instance, as a result of this discussion I might decide that Brent's actions are fine, and bid or consign with him. Or I might decide that he's a cheat who is using ebay's policies of shielding fraud, to make as much money as he can while he can. But at least we have discussed it...in a DISCUSSION FORUM... which to me seems very appropriate.

Scott,

The reason I asked my rather naive-looking question is because of the discussion on this thread. I am new to the hobby and am struggling with what I need to do personally about this. I have bought cards from many board members this last year and have yet to have any problem with a BST transaction, thank you all very much. I have also purchased cards from a few ebay sellers mentioned in this thread (and others), as well as a few auction houses. While my purchases are nowhere near the dollars seen in these examples, I am really wondering if I have paid inflated prices because of the condition of the marketplace.

So is the seller a cheat, or is the marketplace rigged so a guy like me won't know he's been had until...now. Be the seller an AH with a solid reputation, or an ebay site with questionable scan practices and shilling apparently all too frequent for any comfort...I am thinking about going back to building bamboo rods and forgetting all this. Too bad, as it has been a lot of fun.

My question to Mr. Spaeth was not intended as confrontational, and if taken that way, my apologies.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Keith, Kevin, Ronald,

Would you prefer that we ignore problems we see, unless we can legally prosecute? The law isn't perfect and ebay is shielding its sellers in order to maximize profit. But despite this, we can still point out problems that we see and let our forum members react as they deem appropriate.

For instance, as a result of this discussion I might decide that Brent's actions are fine, and bid or consign with him. Or I might decide that he's a cheat who is using ebay's policies of shielding fraud, to make as much money as he can while he can. But at least we have discussed it...in a DISCUSSION FORUM... which to me seems very appropriate.

Scott, the problem is that the arguments around this get too personal. People are basically calling each other idiots if they don't agree w/ the opposing opinion. There's no "I respect your opinion, and let's agree to disagree." Instead it's more like, "you are an idiot who doesn't know what the #%#$%$ you're talking about, so just shut the %$#%$# up before you embarrass yourself further."

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by glchen

Scott, the problem is that the arguments around this get too personal. People are basically calling each other idiots if they don't agree w/ the opposing opinion. There's no "I respect your opinion, and let's agree to disagree." Instead it's more like, "you are an idiot who doesn't know what the #%#$%$ you're talking about, so just shut the %$#%$# up before you embarrass yourself further."

Maybe if the people who sell widgets for a living respected the professional opinions of people who are dispensing information gleaned directly from decades of practice in that professional field instead of claiming that their lay opinions of said field are instead more accurate there wouldn't be the problem you talk about.

Maybe if the people who sell widgets for a living didn't fabricate their opinions for reasons of greed or dishonesty in an attempt to protect the fraudsters -- and instead actually gave honest opinions -- there wouldn't be the problem you talk about.

Respect is a two way street.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Maybe if the people who sell widgets for a living respected the professional opinions of people who are dispensing information gleaned directly from decades of practice in that professional field instead of claiming that their lay opinions of said field are instead more accurate there wouldn't be the problem you talk about.

Maybe if the people who sell widgets for a living didn't fabricate their opinions for reasons of greed or dishonesty in an attempt to protect the fraudsters -- and instead actually gave honest opinions -- there wouldn't be the problem you talk about.

Respect is a two way street.

+1

[jhs5120]

On a seperate note, has anyone seen some of the bidding activity in the HYEE auction?

Do they accept consignments?

[markf31]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Maybe if the people who sell widgets for a living respected the professional opinions of people who are dispensing information gleaned directly from decades of practice in that professional field instead of claiming that their lay opinions of said field are instead more accurate there wouldn't be the problem you talk about.

Maybe if the people who sell widgets for a living didn't fabricate their opinions for reasons of greed or dishonesty in an attempt to protect the fraudsters -- and instead actually gave honest opinions -- there wouldn't be the problem you talk about.

Respect is a two way street.

+1

It's hard to respect someone when they spew nonsense about a topic that they, in reality, know absolutely nothing about, attempt to defend their own blatant ignorance on the subject and charade as an expert on that topic. That is being stupid and/or ignorant. Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Maybe if the people who sell widgets for a living respected the professional opinions of people who are dispensing information gleaned directly from decades of practice in that professional field instead of claiming that their lay opinions of said field are instead more accurate there wouldn't be the problem you talk about.

Maybe if the people who sell widgets for a living didn't fabricate their opinions for reasons of greed or dishonesty in an attempt to protect the fraudsters -- and instead actually gave honest opinions -- there wouldn't be the problem you talk about.

Respect is a two way street.

Jeff, so basically you're saying for certain topics on this board should be for lawyers-only to discuss.

Leon, can we have a lawyers-only subforum?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by glchen

Jeff, so basically you're saying for certain topics on this board should be for lawyers-only to discuss.

Leon, can we have a lawyers-only subforum?

No, Gary, what I'm saying is that when the issue arises which calls for an analysis of the law or for anecdotal information about how a practice of law occurs, the idiots with no training or education in the field (except from watching TV) should STFU and not say that we're wrong and insist upon flaunting their ignorance. It's a waste of sound information and it's only being challenged in order to protect a fraudster (or prevent someone's loved one from being raped or something).

Leon, can we have a passive-aggressive asshole subforum?

[tschock]

Originally Posted by calvindog

No, Gary, what I'm saying is that when the issue arises which calls for an analysis of the law or for anecdotal information about how a practice of law occurs, the idiots with no training or education in the field (except from watching TV) should STFU and not say that we're wrong and insist upon flaunting their ignorance. It's a waste of sound information and it's only being challenged in order to protect a fraudster (or prevent someone's loved one from being raped or something).

Leon, can we have a passive-aggressive asshole subforum?

Hey Jeff, I have no formal training in the field, but even I know that you can't be "proven innocent" in court, as some have insisted in other threads. And that if you are found "not guilty", that has nothing to do with whether or not you are actually "innocent".

Other than that, I tend to usually defer to the "experts" in their respective fields.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by tschock

Hey Jeff, I have no formal training in the field, but even I know that you can't be "proven innocent" in court, as some have insisted in other threads. And that if you are found "not guilty", that has nothing to do with whether or not you are actually "innocent".

Other than that, I tend to usually defer to the "experts" in their respective fields.

Well said and the PERFECT example of your common sense is when Judge Landis banned the "Black Sox Eight" the day after they were found "not guilty" in a court of law!

Joe T.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by glchen

Scott, the problem is that the arguments around this get too personal. People are basically calling each other idiots if they don't agree w/ the opposing opinion. There's no "I respect your opinion, and let's agree to disagree." Instead it's more like, "you are an idiot who doesn't know what the #%#$%$ you're talking about, so just shut the %$#%$# up before you embarrass yourself further."

Gary, you and I see eye to eye on the above. I count myself as one of the guys who has a hard time 'holding back' in such situations. I can do it easily in real life, but not so much on the internet. In that respect, many of us here are very much alike, even though we are yelling at each other.