Grading Question

[glynparson]

But that is not a Psa 10 s definition.

[savedfrommyspokes]

It is also funny that a $40k graded card has a damaged (tampered with?) case...the lower front right of the case is not supposed to look like that(IMO). My guess, based on the diamond cut and case damage, is that the card inside is not a card that was graded a 10. The seller certainly has a very nice selection of other graded high end cards...so, this maybe one is legit. However, you would for a $40k card that for $5 he would have the card (and the Yount card he is offering) reholdered.

[JollyElm]

Here's another one I ran across on ebay. It's listing to starboard and it gets a 10????? If nothing else, just look at the left/right centering at top. Awful.

williams10.jpg

[savedfrommyspokes]

If you view the card with the same serial number(and a slight diamond cut) that was sold as part of the Dmitri Young collection(which would explain the 10 on a slightly diamond cut card) auction, the barcode on that card is different than the card on ebay.....explains the damage to the case. There is also a print spot on Dmitri's old card in the "B" in Bill that is not present on the card on ebay. On top of that, the diamond cut is opposite on the ebay card.
http://catalog.scpauctions.com/lot-19203.aspx

[corey dean]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

If you view the card with the same serial number(and a slight diamond cut) that was sold as part of the Dmitri Young collection(which would explain the 10 on a slightly diamond cut card) auction, the barcode on that card is different than the card on ebay.....explains the damage to the case. There is also a print spot on Dmitri's old card in the "B" in Bill that is not present on the card on ebay. On top of that, the diamond cut is opposite on the ebay card.
http://catalog.scpauctions.com/lot-19203.aspx

While there are lots of good people in this hobby and I believe most in the hobby are good, it is still a cesspool. Is there any other hobby that is as corrupt? Sports memorabilia perhaps?

I am new to the board and spent some time reading back through pages and pages of old threads. One thing I picked up was the number of posts about PSA cases being tampered with. I don't trust anything in a PSA case....not that I don't trust PSA....just anything in their cases. I understand they have come up with a more tamper proof case?

Then I look at Beckett cases and in my mind, they seem totally tamper proof. I couldn't imagine someone opening one of them and resealing it without it being completely noticeable. Makes me wonder why PSA's carry a premium and why it took them so long to reconfigure their cases. Seems like they have known about this problem for a while. You would think they would have wanted to protect their name sooner with these newer cases.

[glynparson]

It seems to be waaay more tamper proof it even fits together like the bgs slabs. I am guessing it took so long because like so many publicly traded companes they were only looking at the short time costs/profits of changing the case and not the long term. The problem has grown to a proportion where they were almost forced into this.

[Harliduck]

Originally Posted by glynparson

It seems to be waaay more tamper proof it even fits together like the bgs slabs. I am guessing it took so long because like so many publicly traded companes they were only looking at the short time costs/profits of changing the case and not the long term. The problem has grown to a proportion where they were almost forced into this.

Another question...would it be fair to say that as PSA moves forward with a better quality, less tamper proof case that any cards with the old PSA case will now lose value? I would think a big yes, as they are basically admitting the old cases can be tampered with, and naturally consumers will now seek out the new cases vs. the older. I suppose they will make NEW money on all he reslabs folks will be racing for?

[glynparson]

The difference between a 9 and 10 is often rather arbitrary. I do not think the amounts spent on 10 over 9 is often justifiable but to each his own. There are some cards that its hard to argue the 10 like Marshall's 1952 Mantle a truly beautiful card then there are the other 2 PSA 10 1952 Mantle's that arent really any better than some of the 9s out there in my humble opinion. And one of those 10's has a slight diamond cut. If at its worst it falls within the 10 guidleines it is in fact allowed. Im not telling you they wont reject a review for that reason but like I said the difference between 9s and 10s are arbitrary, it honestly is very often luck or repetitive reviews in my opinion.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

If you view the card with the same serial number(and a slight diamond cut) that was sold as part of the Dmitri Young collection(which would explain the 10 on a slightly diamond cut card) auction, the barcode on that card is different than the card on ebay.....explains the damage to the case. There is also a print spot on Dmitri's old card in the "B" in Bill that is not present on the card on ebay. On top of that, the diamond cut is opposite on the ebay card.
http://catalog.scpauctions.com/lot-19203.aspx

I've read your post a few times trying to understand what you're saying, but I guess I'm missing it. Why are you comparing the Dmitri Young Seaver to the Seaver that is the topic of this thread? You say they have the same serial number, but the serial numbers are different. They're 2 different cards. I don't follow.

Seaver that is the topic of this thread...



Dimitri Young Seaver...

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I've read your post a few times trying to understand what you're saying, but I guess I'm missing it. Why are you comparing the Dmitri Young Seaver to the Seaver that is the topic of this thread? You say they have the same serial number, but the serial numbers are different. They're 2 different cards. I don't follow.

Seaver that is the topic of this thread...



Dimitri Young Seaver...

You are right...being dyslexic has it disadvantages and I transposed some of the the 9s, 7s and 4s in the serial number and reading the serial numbers side ways did not help the dyslexia.

Since the thread was about how this Seaver (ebay) card was graded a 10 with a diamond cut and less than perfect centering, I am still of the opinion from my original post in this thread, that due to both frosting on the case and the tilt cut that the card in this holder was not graded by PSA as 10(even though Dmirti's Seaver RC was graded a 10 with a slight tilt).

[vintagetoppsguy]

Oh, ok. I thought I was losing my mind

I disagree with you though on the eBay Seaver. I have seen many cases that were tampered with and the card was replaced and this is definitely not one of them. If so, it would have way more frosing - all around the edges. I think what you're seeing is just maybe where the slab didn't seal proplerly.

That said, I don't think either Seaver is worthy of a 10 with those diamond cuts. A card with a diamond cut should never, ever receive a 10. Best case, it should be a 9 MC. Why does PSA have a MC qualifier if they're not going to use it? And the MC qualifier isn't like the OC qualifier where you can just request "no qualifiers" - if it's MC, they're supposed to label it as such. Just another reason there are no PSA cards in my collection.

[bnorth]

I am with Larry(savedfrommyspokes) on this. If a PSA holder has any and I do mean any frosting stay far far away from it. I can crack them easily leaving very little to no frosting. It is very easy. The bottom left corner of the Seaver card slab is scary looking to me.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with the card, just saying it is crazy easy to crack a slab and leave way less frosting than it has.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Oh, ok. I thought I was losing my mind

I disagree with you though on the eBay Seaver. I have seen many cases that were tampered with and the card was replaced and this is definitely not one of them. If so, it would have way more frosting - all around the edges. I think what you're seeing is just maybe where the slab didn't seal properly.

That said, I don't think either Seaver is worthy of a 10 with those diamond cuts. A card with a diamond cut should never, ever receive a 10. Best case, it should be a 9 MC. Why does PSA have a MC qualifier if they're not going to use it? And the MC qualifier isn't like the OC qualifier where you can just request "no qualifiers" - if it's MC, they're supposed to label it as such. Just another reason there are no PSA cards in my collection.

Dyslexia aside, two other things about the label are concerning....while the bar code is legit, on no other PSA Seaver RCs (that I viewed on ebay, etc) graded post 1/2 grade does the barcode and serial number nearly touch the bottom red edge of the label. Some labels have at least a slight amount amount of white between the barcode and serial number(like the D Young Seaver RC), while others have more. Compared to the others I viewed, the bar code and serial number on the ebay PSA 10 Seaver are sitting on the bottom red line.

Also, the "PSA" on the top red border is partially obscured by the top edge of the case. While I have some PSA cards in my collection that the word "PSA" is right at the edge of the top frame, I found none where the top edge of PSA is partially obscured(I randomly flipped through a few hundred of the 6000 I have graded) by the top edge of the case.

I still can not get over why someone selling a $25-40K card would do so with a glaring crack in the holder. Why would this card not be reholdered? It would be like a car dealership selling a new car with a glaring crack in the windshield.

Finally, here is a link to an article concerning some high dollar fake PSA cards, and while some of the fakes have more frosting than the Seaver card, some in the article have no frosting. A PSA 10 Seaver RC is a more valuable card than some of the cards mentioned in the article

http://bbcemporium.com/california-craigs-list-psa-scam/

[Harliduck]

Originally Posted by glynparson

But that is not a Psa 10 s definition.

Glyn...I get that...but diamond cut isn't in the definition either. Why would anyone pay such a large premium?