Horizontal t206's

[DerekMichael]

David James,

You just blew my mind ...

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by DerekMichael

David James,



You just blew my mind ...

Wow, you're easy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wazoo]

Or you could think of Dunn catching a fly ball, bending backwards a little. I mean, the position of the glove would probably not be correct, but maybe that was the way he caught fly balls?

[Bpm0014]

I believe it to be definitely horizontal. Almost like he is sprinting in and catching a short fly ball or pop up. He is using two hands because all of the players at that time had to use two hands. The gloves back then didnt have the baskets or webs that they do today. Thus, he is running in and diving to catch a short fly ball or pop up. I think. Very interesting!

[veloce]

Looks vertical to me. It would make sense that the original picture would have him catching a pop up since Dunn's a pitcher and he's probably not diving for many fly balls.

As for the arm injury idea... I doubt he could stretch out like that if he couldn't lift his arm over his head.

Edit: Actually I guess he was no longer pitching in those years... still an infielder is more likely to be catching pop ups.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by veloce

Edit: Actually I guess he was no longer pitching in those years... still an infielder is more likely to be catching pop ups.

Although he mostly played the infield, he did play the outfield in the 1902 & 1904 (his last) seasons.

[veloce]

Presumably the original picture would date to his active days with Baltimore to be relatively current with the set. Of course, I don't know what position he played those years.

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Although he mostly played the infield, he did play the outfield in the 1902 & 1904 (his last) seasons.

[CW]

When I read this thread this afternoon during lunch, I was in the horizontal camp. Now, after Andy reiterated about the odd tilt effect that the T206 artists sometimes employed, and after 10 minutes of playing around with photoshop, I can conclude that the original photo was most likely, almost definitely, a vertical shot of Jack Dunn getting ready to make a basket catch. The key was getting rid of the tilt effect, as shown in the Chief Bender card by Andy.

All I did was isolate Dunn from his T206 card, then I rotated Dunn clockwise maybe 20-40 degrees until his belt was basically horizontal (or at least until it looked normal) -- this removed the tilt. Due to the cropping of the T206 image, I had to (crudely) draw in a little bit of pants below Dunn's belt in the lower left, and also a bit of Dunn's elbow.

Once I had this image, I could view it both vertically and horizontally, and I think the the image looks MUCH more natural in the vertical position, as if Jack is getting ready to lower his hands to make a basket catch, as others have mentioned previously. When viewed as a horizontal, it just doesn't look right, and the arms simply don't look like he's naturally diving.

The first image with black background is original from the card, the 2nd image is vertical without the tilt, and for the 3rd image I simply rotated the 2nd image 90 degrees.

[DerekMichael]

net54 is so cool

[wazoo]

I'm convinced.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by wazoo

Or you could think of Dunn catching a fly ball, bending backwards a little. I mean, the position of the glove would probably not be correct, but maybe that was the way he caught fly balls?

Seems like his glove position is wrong for a fly ball. The ball would hit the heel and then hit him in the face. Not that I know from experience ......

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

Seems like his glove position is wrong for a fly ball.

Exactly. I spent a lot of time looking at Google images.

If you Google images of "catching fly ball" they all have one thing in common - the glove faces out (away from their body), not as the Dunn card shows where the glove is faacing in. That would not be the correct position to catch a fly ball.

However, if you Google images of "diving for catch" it shows images of players with the glove facing up or down, so he could definitley be diving for a catch, glove facing up.

[bn2cardz]

It seems like everyone wants to overlook the possibility of it being a diagonal representation of the original picture.

I have been wondering if there has been a single picture of a diving catch prior to the web being put on the glove? I haven't seen one (that is not saying much as I am young and don't collect vintage photos). I have seen posed images on Old Judge, but those have always seemed more of sliding for a fast ground ball. Too me it seems that without the web of the glove a dive for a ball would not be the smarter move as I would assume the impact of the ground would knock the ball loose more times than not. Especially if you aren't going to brace for the fall as you would have to assume Dunn is not doing if you want to believe this is horizontal.

Again. I am not saying they didn't dive but I haven't seen evidence that they did.

[slipk1068]

Fly ball, He is setting up to make a basket catch. With soft hands, he is going to lower them and give with the ball. In the old days, basket catches were WAY more popular than they are today. This has always been my opinion.

[ullmandds]

i thought the debate was horizontal vs vertical? I wouldn't rule out a "diagonal" portrayal...but I still believe it is meant to be vertical and I think slipk1068's description is spot on.