Horizontal t206's

freakhappy · #1 01-15-2014, 12:40 PM

Something to think about...

Let's say for arguments sake, Dunn is in fact in a vertical pose. However, can we argue that although it may be a vertical pose, it was meant to be looked at horizontally? I know I am not alone in my thinking that it looks a lot better horizontally.

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bn2cardz · #2 01-15-2014, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freakhappy

Something to think about...

Let's say for arguments sake, Dunn is in fact in a vertical pose. However, can we argue that although it may be a vertical pose, it was meant to be looked at horizontally? I know I am not alone in my thinking that it looks a lot better horizontally.

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I can never assume intentions. For me though the card looks strange horizontal, but everyone can display as they like.

Whether you see the card as horizontal or vertical may never really be changed.

Sort of like Optical Illusions:

Julz24 · #3 01-15-2014, 01:46 PM

Maybe this has been talked about already but - the cards from this set were all based off of photographs right? I'm not sure that camera technology such as telephoto lenses and fast shutter speeds were available in the early 20th century. The ability to capture an action shot of a player diving for a ball would have been difficult if not impossible.

Just a thought. I personally enjoy seeing the card displayed horizontally, I'm just not convinced that was the intention.

bn2cardz · #4 01-15-2014, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

I have been wondering if there has been a single picture of a diving catch prior to the web being put on the glove? I haven't seen one (that is not saying much as I am young and don't collect vintage photos). I have seen posed images on Old Judge, but those have always seemed more of sliding for a fast ground ball. Too me it seems that without the web of the glove a dive for a ball would not be the smarter move as I would assume the impact of the ground would knock the ball loose more times than not. Especially if you aren't going to brace for the fall as you would have to assume Dunn is not doing if you want to believe this is horizontal.

Again. I am not saying they didn't dive but I haven't seen evidence that they did.

[QUOTE=bn2cardz;1228184]
Even if I am wrong and it is a diving catch, I would love to see a vintage photo of a diving catch because, as stated previously, I haven't seen one.QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julz24

Maybe this has been talked about already but - the cards from this set were all based off of photographs right? I'm not sure that camera technology such as telephoto lenses and fast shutter speeds were available in the early 20th century. The ability to capture an action shot of a player diving for a ball would have been difficult if not impossible.

Just a thought. I personally enjoy seeing the card displayed horizontally, I'm just not convinced that was the intention.

I had brought it up, but not for the sake of the Cameras (but I agree for that reason also). I really just can't imagine trying to dive for a ball with a finger glove and be expected to catch the ball. I would love to see a non staged photo of it happening. It would be a neat find.

CW · #5 01-15-2014, 06:27 PM

A fellow board member and collector pointed out yet another card where the artist took the liberty to rotate the image (once again) about 20-25 degrees counterclockwise. Found at T206resource.com, you can also see the same artistic tilt effect used on the Patsy Dougherty card.

Although the debate of horizontal vs. vertical might be getting a bit old, this discussion does give a little insight into how these cards were originally laid out and cropped by the artists who helped create what we call The Monster.

It seems like in each case (Bender, Dunn, and now Dougherty) the guy laying out the artwork on the card rotated the image about 20 degrees counterclockwise. In the case of the Dunn, it creates an odd effect if you view the card vertically, but with Bender and Dougherty it fits the card.

I can also see why the artist took these liberties -- he/she had a fairly narrow window to work within, so these changes were possibly made to make the player "fit" on the image space of the card, without having to show a bunch of dead space above the player.

In conclusion, I believe the original image used for the Dunn was a shot of him standing upright to make a basket catch. However, it is possible that the intention of the artist was to give the viewer the effect that Dunn is diving -- it's possible.

Here's the Dougherty comparison, and what I think the Dunn card would've looked like if the artist did not use the tilt effect (notice all the dead space I had to leave above Dunn, almost making it look like an E card)...

celoknob · #6 01-15-2014, 09:32 PM

Before reading the evidence presented here (which I will not rehash) I would have leaned toward the card being horizantal, albeit with a great deal of uncertainty.

Although still somewhat ambiguous, my thinking has definitely shifted towards thinking it is vertical but with the diagonal tilt illustrated on these other cards. The card is interesting because, in my opinion, it was so poorly executed. I don't think it was on purpose to confuse. Anyway, for some reason I found this discussion interesting.

steve B · #7 01-15-2014, 09:35 PM

Another one that's been rotated is Davis.

The T206 may be the rotated one.

The one shown may also be a bit special but it's in bad enough shape it's hard to tell. But that's for another thread.

Steve B

CW · #8 01-15-2014, 11:30 PM

Now the question is... Moose McCormick.... vertical or horizontal???

Runscott · #9 01-19-2014, 12:31 PM

Since no one's biting:

CW · #10 01-19-2014, 01:29 PM

Nice! Missing color variation, too!

Runscott · #11 01-16-2014, 09:18 PM

...........

AMBST95 · #12 01-15-2014, 02:13 PM

This thread has me losing my mind. I have 5 Dunns sitting on my desk right now, all positioned at different angles, and have completely lost it. It's my opinion that the diagonal theory is probably correct, but that the original artist knew he'd be messing with all of us when he designed the card. Seriously though, by using the diagonal pose, it allows the artist to include more of his arms. If Dunn was physically unable to lift his arms high and they would have included a normal vertical image, his glove would be off the print area of the card. The distance from his right shoulder to the end of the glove is longer than the width of the print area. This is why they tilted the image to allow his full arms to be depicted.

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