What is scrap and what isn't?

[drcy]

Scraps were sheets where the printing didn't come out right, so they were thrown away (scrapped) and someone figuratively or literally retrieved them from the trash can and hand cut the cards. The worker may have brought the sheet home for his kids.

Most scraps are handcut and have bad or missing printing. A lot of the psychedelic misprints, cards missing colors or terribly overlapping colors are scraps-- tossed away due to the bad printing. They often have blank backs but can have printed backs.

Most proofs offered for sale are actually scraps.

Scraps really only have extra value if the printing is especially unusual and striking. If entire colors are strikingly missing, such a card printed in only black and yellow, or the color alignment is totally off to the point of causing vertigo, that can bring a premium. I assume blank backs bring a premium. Otherwise, the card is just printing that didn't meet standards and should be valued less than a factory finished card.

I wouldn't surprised if factory cut blank backs made it into cigarette packs. Blank backs have been pulled out of Topps packs. I pulled a blank back out of a 1979 Topps pack as a kid.

Identifying proofs of cards is tricky. Sometimes they are on different stock and have crosses and marks so can be identified as such, while other times they look just like blank back misprints. I've had proofs from 1989 Gurnsey Topps Archive auction that looked just like regular blank back cards. The fronts were normal with all the printing. The only way I knew for sure they were proofs was Topps said they were. Other proofs from the same auction were clearly proofs just looking at them, as they were on very different stock (smooth bright white instead of the normal rough grey/brown Topps stock), blank backed and the fronts contained as few as one color and had no text. One proof had just the yellow ink.

The most interesting trading card proof I have is on transparent mylar sheets. Each sheet has a different color ink and when you put sheets on top of each other you get the finished design. It's clearly not a scrap.

[Bocabirdman]

I just talked to a printer. He describes things as:

Scrap....Make-Readies for a run. (Leon's Masterpiece would indeed be Scrap)
Misprints....Lapses in Quality Control
Proof.... Test Print or Prints to achieve a perfect example. Failed Proofs would be Scrap in the days before computers.

[brob28]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

I just talked to a printer. He describes things as:

Scrap....Make-Readies for a run. (Leon's Masterpiece would indeed be Scrap)
Misprints....Lapses in Quality Control
Proof.... Test Print or Prints to achieve a perfect example. Failed Proofs would be Scrap in the days before computers.

I think this is a great summary. For clarity within our hobby, I would add:

Scrap: Not intended for the public
Misprints: Included in print runs intended for public distribution
Proof: Intended for internal use to determine feasability or design review.

[wonkaticket]

My company produces all sorts of items for distribution, for us it’s very simple. Anything that isn’t a fully finished product as intended by the licensor or our own internal approval for mass distribution is a scrap product.

Sure we can define certain stages of what that item may be internally but all are part of the full production process and were not intended for the public to see or own.

[Exhibitman]

The Coburn is most likely scrap because it is not to size for an issued card and is obviously hand-cut. I suppose it could have gone into a pack but I seriously doubt it. The Titus* looks to me an issued miscut.

* "Ill take Titties for $100 Alex"
"That's 'Titus' Mr. Connery"
"Not much with the ladies are you, Trebek?"
--with apologies to one of my favorite SNL sketches ever, celebrity Jeopardy with Sean Connery.

[mrvster]

I will refer to T206 in this post.....but all scrap are the same when it comes to cardboard/printing...


This is right up my alley....I have been differentiating "scrap" vs. "crap" for the last 15 or so years.....

Printer's Scrap.......is sometimes HARD to differentiate, but most are very obvious...the real deal scrap deserve mucho scratch/cheddar what ever you want to call it , THEY ARE UNIQUE CARDS UNTO THEMSELVES....alternative T206 cards, if you will....(I am almost surprised Mr. Ullman is not all over them, they are almost , essentially "bizarro" T206 , the exact opposite of T206)...

THIS is why I love ' Em....they are not the mundane, same 'ol cards.....these are unique unto themselves "snow flakes" "gems".....

usually, with scrap, no one else can own the card you do....a special card....

even similar scrap are different from each other....

I enjoy the FREAKINESS of them....they are aesthetically SICK.....and with no disrespect to the players pictured, almost SPOOKY



a "tweener" scrap (as I have termed them), are almost positively scrap, but can not get the 100 % positive confirmation.....I will touch on this later...


first off....AL BROWN OLD MILL ARE 1000 % SCRAP! O Ya....they are hand cut from a sheet that NEVER MADE IT INTO FACTORY PACKS/ CUT...they are a rare , non issued back...basically a F up


ALL SCRAP WERE not distributed in ANY packs. RE- PEAT SCRAPS WERE NOT ISSUED TO THE PUBLIC....they are essentially not even production cards......they are any cards that WERE NOT inserted into packs/or distributed to the public.....they were only privy to the people involved in the print process/distribution/ or design.....or the dumpster divers....they were mistakes/ or sheets used to set up the print machines for the production cards....hence, the printers created works of art without even knowing...


they give clues on the process of the lithography(which was beautiful I might add)....




PHEW...

1000% scraps are HAND CUT......true SCRAP is always hand cut....there may have been a factory blank back sheet that was factory cut, but I truly doubt it...

ALL SCRAPS ARE HAND CUT....the real obvious are the oversized hand cut......

most scrap have something wrong with it(ghost, missing ink, color, registration problem, miscut, ect, ect)....BUT NOT ALL OF THEM DO...


"tweener" scrap are most likely scraps, but can't be 100 % verified( cut short, ect)



if you need an opinion on a T206 Scrap/ or tweener....please email me.....




scrap are big bux, if someone tries to pawn one off on you as scrap, and your not sure, email me(I will not bother you to sell it unless your willing)


Peace

[ullmandds]

[QUOTE=mrvster;1240281](I am almost surprised Mr. Ullman is not all over them, they are almost , essentially "bizarro" T206 , the exact opposite of T206)...



Johny...I DO find these scraps interesting...they are very cool...and I love to see them...just not at the crazy prices being paid for them!

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

The Coburn is most likely scrap because it is not to size for an issued card and is obviously hand-cut. I suppose it could have gone into a pack but I seriously doubt it. The Titus* looks to me an issued miscut.

* "Ill take Titties for $100 Alex"
"That's 'Titus' Mr. Connery"
"Not much with the ladies are you, Trebek?"
--with apologies to one of my favorite SNL sketches ever, celebrity Jeopardy with Sean Connery.

Alex, I'll take "The Rapists" for $100 please

That's "Therapists" Mr. Connery!

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Alex, I'll take "The Rapists" for $100 please

That's "Therapists" Mr. Connery!

Alex, I'll take "The Penis Mightier" for $200

That's "The Pen is Mightier" Mr Connery...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

My company produces all sorts of items for distribution, for us it’s very simple. Anything that isn’t a fully finished product as intended by the licensor or our own internal approval for mass distribution is a scrap product.

Sure we can define certain stages of what that item may be internally but all are part of the full production process and were not intended for the public to see or own.

Hang onto it 100 years from now some lunatics may view it as a collectible.

[MVSNYC]

Once i saw Leon's initial post, i knew Johnny would be all over this thread.

As many people above have mentioned, they are cards that, for one reason or another, were weeded out due to QC issues, and never made it into distribution- missing color, blank back, upside down back, ghosts, multi-strike test runs, etc.

A few that i own...

[mrvster]

you know I'm scrap dreaming all day

I LOVE Those scraps you have....

the Hart is a sister card to my Thebo, Jamie's and Steve's.....off same sheet.....just like a brown old mill sheet.....total sickness rare cards...

Lafitte....who can't love these S.Ler's in the BB?????????? true scrap and beautiful...

I have one the Sweeney triplet....and the Mcintyre really "pops"....look at all those colors missing...anemic....

a sick display o' scraps there my friend....

Peter...........that was funny....

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

I just talked to a printer. He describes things as:

Scrap....Make-Readies for a run. (Leon's Masterpiece would indeed be Scrap)
Misprints....Lapses in Quality Control
Proof.... Test Print or Prints to achieve a perfect example. Failed Proofs would be Scrap in the days before computers.

That's a good definition, one that can be understood easily and covers most situations.

Looking at it more technically, there are a lot of stages of proofs depending on the way the printer and customer work. The shop I was at did nearly no proofing. Probably a photographic mockup for customer approval, but not much more. Topps uses an amazingly wide array of proofs for different stages of the design and approval process.

In a way, make ready sheets are proofs. Just the final stage where the equipment gets adjusted as production begins. Some are nearly "good enough" to be released, some aren't even close.

And "scrap" can actually be finished product that ends up being discarded. We tossed something like 12,000 college course catalogs that were overordered by the college. No room at their office. We found lots of places to put the first 12k copies, stacked to the ceiling, on top of file cabinets, under desks, basically anywhere a box would fit. After a few months they said to trash the rest. No real problem since they'd already paid for them.

With T206 there are a few that would obviously be "scraps" but don't have any of the usual scrap faults. Like this Ewing. Obviously hand cut, but entirely finished except for cutting. My guess is that either it was leftover when the change to shipping 350's began, or that the sheet was partly damaged and someone brought it home.

Steve B

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by steve B

Like this Ewing. Obviously hand cut, but entirely finished except for cutting. My guess is that either it was leftover when the change to shipping 350's began, or that the sheet was partly damaged and someone brought it home.

Steve B

there won't be a correct definition, but I wouldn't say this is scrap. No way to tell if this was done at the factory or at home by someone's two year old sister.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by t206hound

there won't be a correct definition, but I wouldn't say this is scrap. No way to tell if this was done at the factory or at home by someone's two year old sister.

I'm almost positive those cuts aren't from the factory

It's a great example of a hard to define card. Nothing obviously wrong except the cut, but probably cut from a sheet or partial sheet because of the size of the borders. It could also simply be a normal card that was oversize and off center that someones 2yr old sister got at with scissors.

It was cheap enough back in the early 80's that I can't be too worried. At the time I bought it I think commons were around $3 and this one would have been a lot less, maybe 50 cents?

Steve B

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Bocabirdman

I just talked to a printer. He describes things as:

Scrap....Make-Readies for a run. (Leon's Masterpiece would indeed be Scrap)
Misprints....Lapses in Quality Control
Proof.... Test Print or Prints to achieve a perfect example. Failed Proofs would be Scrap in the days before computers.

Very, very interesting--perhaps the ambiguity is why (I have been advised) PSA stopped grading proofs some time ago. +1 on the above.

May your collecting bring great joy to you, and tolerance from your spouse!

Larry