Anyone familiar with this Babe Ruth Postcard Issue?

[Jaybird]

Originally Posted by caramelcard

This looks modern to me from the looks of the back.

Rob

Have to say that I am inclined to agree. The back looks like a stamp rather than printed back. We've been seeing these a bit over the last few years, though not this particular back. How is the fidelity of the image when looked at through a loop? Print dots or photographic?

[Greenmonster]

Originally Posted by Jaybird

Have to say that I am inclined to agree. The back looks like a stamp rather than printed back. We've been seeing these a bit over the last few years, though not this particular back. How is the fidelity of the image when looked at through a loop? Print dots or photographic?

Hi Jason...good to hear from you. I have my concerns too about the vintage of this card. The stamp box (1917) doesn't really match up with the picture (1920) but I could rationalize that away with old RPPC stock bring used.

A quick search on the publisher Societe Anonyme, shows that this was an organization of New York based art enthusiasts who did publish postcards. All other subjects seem to be art related, may be Ruth coming to New York was such a big deal that they did a card with his image...??

I don't have the card, I'm considering a purchase and was hoping I'd find a Net54 member with another I could use as a comparison.

[Runscott]

....

[glchen]

Nice card. Looks like Frank W has sold this card before: Link

[Runscott]

...

[Greenmonster]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I bought these two well-done Ruth fakes over ten years ago - not sure which back goes with which postcard, but I probably have other images on one of my back-up drives.

Thanks Scott..I've seen the AZO and CYKO fakes, this PRC back with publisher name is new to me, I don't have any postcard in my collection (real or fake) that has that back. I can't seem to find one on line either.

I did notice that the link Gary provided had this postcard along with two other know Ruth fakes (one of which you've shown too).

At this point I have doubts about this card being authentic.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I bought these two well-done Ruth fakes over ten years ago - not sure which back goes with which postcard, but I probably have other images on one of my back-up drives.

Those look really well done.

What's the pointers to them being fake? If there are fake RPPCs of Ruth there are probably some of other interesting subjects and it would be good to know how to spot them.

Those two Ruths would fool me unless I had them in hand and it's a paper difference.

Steve b

[joeadcock]

Jim

I bought the one that Frank W had.

I sent it go SGC and was graded. When I can, I will post it. Its was real(at least the one I have, I dont know about that one you show)

I do not recall what the back looks like, as I bought it quite awhile back. The back you show does not look familiar. I'll scan front and back for you when I can get to the postcard.

[smokelessjoe]

Here is a match at-least on the left side text.....

http://artsalesindex.artinfo.com/asi/lots/4902284

[smokelessjoe]

According to this write-up, Society Anonyme was only at the 47th Street address for one year - 1920.



In 1920 Dreier and her friend and infamous fellow artist Marcel Duchamp decided to form a new organization devoted to exhibiting and promoting modern art to Americans. (Duchamp was one of the most provocative Dada/Surrealist artists of his time. He is best known for his Cubist/Futurist-inspired painting Nude Descending a Staircase, No. 2 which scandalized the American audience at the 1913 Armory Show in New York City, and the urinal that he found and exhibited as the sculpture Fountain by the artist “R. Mutt”). They invited Man Ray, a Dada/Surrealist artist and avant-garde photographer to join them in their efforts.It was Man Ray who came up with the name “Société Anonyme,” which he thought literally meant “Anonymous Society” in French. Duchamp informed him that in French the true meaning is equivalent to the English word “Incorporated.” Drier liked the name because it had the ring of impartiality – it put the focus on the art, not the individual artists and puts a capitalist spin on an anti-materialist art organization. Drier rented two small rooms at 19 East 47th Street in New York City for the exhibit space and the library of the fledgling organization. When it was officially incorporated in New York, it became more Dada joke since it now meant “Incorporated, Inc.”On April 30, 1920, the Société Anonyme, with the now-appended title “Museum of Modern Art: 1920” had its first exhibition. Duchamp designed the space with a neutral, industrial look. The floor was ribbed rubber and the walls and woodwork were a pale blue. The exhibit featured the European artists Jacques Villon (half-brother of Marcel Duchamp), Alexander Archipenko, Juan Gris, Heinrich Vogler, Vincent van Gogh and the sculptor Brancusi. American artists included Joseph Stella, Patrick Henry Bruce, James Daugherty, and works by New York Dadaists Duchamp, Man Ray, Morton Schamberg and others.Dreier had hoped to raise enough money to establish a permanent space to exhibit modern art, but wasn’t successful. She gave up the 47th Street space after a year but the Société Anonyme continued to function as a museum-without-walls by holding exhibits, lectures and symposia in other galleries, clubs, workers’ centers and rental spaces. The Société also produced publications and had an acquisitions program. It continued to draw on the talents of international artists including Cubists, Dadaists, Futurists, Expressionists, Constructivists and other progressive artistic genres.Drier’s real hope of founding the first permanent museum of modern art in the United States was eclipsed when the Museum of Modern Art (now commonly referred to as MoMA) in New York City was established in 1929 by a more diplomatic Alfred Barr, the museum’s founding director, with very substantial financial backing from its most prominent supporters.Villon Duchamp drawing on Society Anonyme postcard.The postcards shown here are all from the Société’s first year on East 47th Street. Oddly enough these postcards are all real photo postcards that can hardly do justice to some of the most colorful and exciting artworks of that time. Other artists whose work is shown on the postcards (and are not already mentioned above) are Louis Eilshemius, Pablo Picasso, Kurt Schwitters, Heinrich Campendonk and R. Villon-Duchamp (brother of Marcel Duchamp). - See more at: http://www.antiquetrader.com/antique....Vi90hFMg.dpuf

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Jaybird

Have to say that I am inclined to agree. The back looks like a stamp rather than printed back. We've been seeing these a bit over the last few years, though not this particular back. How is the fidelity of the image when looked at through a loop? Print dots or photographic?

+1

[glchen]

This card is now for auction in the current REA auction: Link. Has it been determined conclusively if this card is real or fake?

(Edit: To be open about it, I put an initial placeholder bid on this card before thinking it looked familiar from before.)

[Hankphenom]

Fabulous discussion among guys that know a lot. That's why I love Net54. Can't wait to see what happens in the auction.

[EddieP]

Here’s my thoughts: Man Ray and Marcel Duchamp were part of the Dada/ Surrealist art movement. Duchamp was the dude that exhibited a urinal in an art show. Man Ray was the guy who photographed a lady with perfectly circular tear drops. Google Man Ray and Marcel Duchamps and you’ll get a better idea of what they did.

But to put it simply, their type of art was more akin to the type of stuff that you’d see in the strip cards.That photo of Ruth is realistic and doesn’t fit into anything either one of them will do. I don’t think the PC came from their studio.

I am not familiar at all with the stampbox on that PC so I can’t put a date on it.

I’ll go out on the line and say SGC got it wrong. But that’s just my $0.02.

[tkd]

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I do remember the post card being discussed on here before and couldn't find the original post. Glad you found it. Will be interesting to hear the conclusion to this if we get one.

[EddieP]

From Wiki regarding Man Ray:
“ Man Ray abandoned conventional painting to involve himself with Dada, a radical anti-art movement. He published two Dadaist periodicals, that each only had one issue, The Ridgefield Gazook (1915) and TNT (1919), the latter co-edited by Adolf Wolff and Mitchell Dawson.[13][14] He started making objects and developed unique mechanical and photographic methods of making images. For the 1918 version of Rope Dancer, he combined a spray-gun technique with a pen drawing. Like Duchamp, he worked with readymades—ordinary objects that are selected and modified. His Gift readymade (1921) is a flatiron with metal tacks attached to the bottom, and Enigma of Isidore Ducasse[15] is an unseen object (a sewing machine) wrapped in cloth and tied with cord. Aerograph (1919), another work from this period, was done with airbrush on glass.[16]”


From Wiki regarding Marcel Duchamp:
“ Duchamp created the Société Anonyme in 1920, along with Katherine Dreier and Man Ray. This was the beginning of his lifelong involvement in art dealing and collecting. The group collected modern art works, and arranged modern art exhibitions and lectures throughout the 1930s.

By this time Walter Pach, one of the coordinators of the 1913 Armory Show, sought Duchamp's advice on modern art. Beginning with Société Anonyme, Dreier also depended on Duchamp's counsel in gathering her collection, as did Arensberg. Later Peggy Guggenheim, Museum of Modern Art directors Alfred Barr and James Johnson Sweeney consulted with Duchamp on their modern art collections and shows.‘

Looking at a previous post by pencil1974 the PRC poststamp was used by the Phot Roto Company in 1910-1917.

Again this postcard of Ruth is a very conventional photo. There are no embellishments added to this postcards to make it absurd ( e.g. drawing a mustache on Ruth, drawing a bseball in the picture etc). I am very skeptical that is was produced by the Societe Anonyme in NYC. Based on the poststamp box Ruth should be wearing a RedSox uniform. I believed “ Societe Anonyme” was added to the postcard in order to establish the date to 1920.