Color "error" variations in t206 cards

[steve B]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the explanation, I appreciate it. I quoted myself ^^ because I understand that the UV rays can dull the red-I just have a hard time thinking that it would completely remove the whole color. And, I know that the major TPG's use a UV protective plastic in their slabs for this reason.

But, will it remove all traces of red? In John's poster (thanks for posting that by the way), you can see the UV rays degraded the color red, but you can still tell it was red. It didn't remove the whole color.

Back to the cards.....if those cards weren't glued on to that poster, it would be a little easier to conclude that all of the fading was because of prolonged sunlight-but the fact that they are glued on, makes me wonder if it was the glue-or-a combination of both.

Now, here's why this topic is important (IMO)- if, as some of you are saying- the red can disappear completely due to prolonged exposure to sun/UV rays- how can one tell a legitimate card that is missing a red pass to one that has been exposed to the sun? I mean, in theory couldn't someone take their cards to a tanning salon, put them under one of those tanning beds for a few sessions, and *POOF* create a "missing red pass" card?

Great discussion, very interesting....

Sincerely, Clayton

What I did with the ones from the lot I bought was to look for signs that the ink was still there. My theory was that the ink has a different glossiness than the cardboard, so a card showing the white of the cardboard where bright red should be would be glossy for a faded card and not glossy for a missing color. (Glossy being relative here)

What I saw was one card that was glossy where the red should have been and one that wasn't. So either I was wrong - the most likely answer. Or I'd gotten one faded card and one legit missing color.

One thing I've noticed is that many of the actual missing colors are missing more than one color.
And that color variations can be caused by the level of inking. The colors that usually show up with heavier inking making the card look different are Gray, pink, and blue.
Most of the 350s come with two different bright red layers. Something I think is a legitimate variety I haven't really studied them in detail, but I think it may be a difference between 350 only runs and the later ones carried over to 350/460. And they probably all got redone again for the 460 series.

The farther I get into this stuff the more questions I find. And the answers are increasingly difficult.

Steve B

[wonkaticket]

Ted, my point was very simple. You made a comment above that you now are avoiding or twisting. You said that in all your years of collecting you have yet to see a T206 that showed signs of missing color due to exposure to sun or artificial light.

This is nothing new to any collector especially one with years of collecting. Exposure damage is real, known and and seen quite often.....not only in our world but many other collecting worlds.

Sometimes I think you almost take the polar opposite side just to debate. If someone said tobacco cards were issued with tobacco you would announce that you had a theory that they were put out with pudding.

John

[caramelcard]

John,

I'm not Ted, but I had the same stance in this case.

It's funny that you mention taking the polar opposite side just to debate because that's what I feel you guys are doing in this case.

Most of the T206 color errors are not due to sunlight. There's not a ton of T206 collections bathing in the sun. Would you agree?

Rob

[wonkaticket]

Robert, where did I say most or mention any percentage of cards with color variations are due to just UV damage?

I'm simply pointing out That UV can be a cause and is not something that is never seen or some odd occurrence that is hardly seen as announced so boldly by Ted and his statement.

I would also disagree with you that T206s aren't sitting in the sun, folk art and displaying cards either glued, pinned or stuck up was common use for these premiums upon issue. Cards don't have sit in the sun for 100 years to be affected.

Cheers,

John

[caramelcard]

Fair enough. But I believe it is an odd occurrence and it's rarely seen. I've handled a ton of them and I know you have too. How many have you had that struck you as altered by the sun?

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by caramelcard

Fair enough. But I believe it is an odd occurrence and it's rarely seen. I've handled a ton of them and I know you have too. How many have you had that struck you as altered by the sun?

Robert quite a few have struck me as sun/UV, glue, chemicals or something else since you ask.

Finding true missing reds that are bold minus the red isn't an easy thing. I think that's why I own so few them. But that's just my experience with T206s and the set.....

[Bridwell]

Clayton, I used to own a Donie Bush with a bright orange background. I didn't think it was faded and no evidence of soaking or glue. It seems to me it was missing a red color pass. The card was a PSA 4, I believe.

I currently have an Abstein PSA 5 with the similar bright orange background.

[MVSNYC]

The majority of color error cards are legit, and are missing color passes and/or were printer's scraps with a variety of (cool) issues...I think what John & I were responding to, was whether or not sun can fade colors on cards, posters, etc...which I think several people have now confirmed it can do lots of damage...I'm at a resort right now, and they have a lounge with a library of books next to the fireplace (sunlight hits the bookshelf)...on most of the older books, the exposed edge is totally faded. See attached.