Gone with the stain. Dick Towle

GoldenAge50s · #1 03-25-2014, 12:22 AM

If I buy a card that was "cleaned" and I can't detect any evidence, you can't detect any evidence, the graders can't detect any evidence and nobody else can detect any evidence, then what does it really matter?

My feelings also. If you can't see it, smell it or can't know it was done, then was ANYTHING really done?

It's like grading: a card gets a VG 4 for a crease no one can see or find--then to me it isn't there!

Brian Van Horn · #2 03-25-2014, 12:49 AM

The basis of this thread repulses me.

oldjudge · #3 03-25-2014, 01:10 AM

If you can't detect a trim is that OK? if you can't detect rebuilt corners is that OK? This is a slippery slope you have gotten on.

freakhappy · #4 03-25-2014, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldjudge

If you can't detect a trim is that OK? if you can't detect rebuilt corners is that OK? This is a slippery slope you have gotten on.

cleaning is not trimming...

Of course there are some TPG's that miss trimming on some cards, but I would hope that most of it does get caught. And rebuilding is not even close to simply cleaning a stain or dirt from a card.

So all ball players that slide into home and get dirt on their knees...should they not be able to wipe it off??? That would result in alteration!!!

wonkaticket · #5 03-25-2014, 01:55 AM

So Mike if I cleaned say a 1914 CJ Jackson and removed all the stains made it look brighter and cleaner or a T206 Polar Bear Cobb in the same manner...and you couldn't tell.

You wouldn't mind to find out later you paid a premium due to my "undectable" face lift?

teetwoohsix · #6 03-25-2014, 04:41 AM

I just have a question, and will refrain on saying what I think of this.

Mr. Towle admits he uses "chemicals" to do his work. So, my question would be this: Since chemicals are admittedly being used, are there any guarantees that 20 years down the road the card/s that this process was done to will not begin to degrade from the chemical exposure? That includes paper degradation, ink fading, etc? Obviously in the short term, it appears that all traces of whatever mysterious chemicals are being used are not detectable. But, I'm wondering about the long term effects-20, 25, 30 years from now-have any long term studies been done?

Thanks-

Sincerely, Clayton

barrysloate · #7 03-25-2014, 06:55 AM

I always find it fascinating how much collectors will pay for high grade baseball cards when so much can be done to enhance them, much of it undetectable. You would think that there would have to be a very high level of confidence to pay many thousands of dollars for a pristine card, but the only thing that ever seems to matter is the number on the slab. Nothing deters a buyer as long as the label reads 8, 9, or higher. It's an amazing phenomenon.

smokelessjoe · #8 03-25-2014, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

So Mike if I cleaned say a 1914 CJ Jackson and removed all the stains made it look brighter and cleaner or a T206 Polar Bear Cobb in the same manner...and you couldn't tell.

You wouldn't mind to find out later you paid a premium due to my "undectable" face lift?

Johnka Wonka McDonka

Ok, I am wondering about your question? So John, if I dumped chocolate milk (that is a hypothetical liquid - could be pomegranate rind as well) on a lets say 1914 CJ Jackson and added all kinds of stains to make it look darker & dirtier or a T206 Polar Bear Cobb in the same manner.... and you could obviously tell.

Would you mind paying an inferior price due to my "detectable" face lift?

More importantly, would you expect full disclosure of how I altered the cards? My name, when, where, what and how???

Thank you,
Shoney Baloney

glynparson · #9 03-25-2014, 06:57 AM

Wonka is correct as are the others showing concern for what this does to the future of the card. This is not the same as removing wax from the front of a card with a nylon stocking. Adding a chemical to the card does, if the chemical remains at all, change the card wether we can tell or not. removing the wax restores the card to the original state. I fail to see how we can defend this practice until the long term effects of this chemical exposure are known.

wonkaticket · #10 03-25-2014, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokelessjoe

Johnka Wonka McDonka

Ok, I am wondering about your question? So John, if I dumped chocolate milk (that is a hypothetical liquid - could be pomegranate rind as well) on a lets say 1914 CJ Jackson and added all kinds of stains to make it look darker & dirtier or a T206 Polar Bear Cobb in the same manner.... and you could obviously tell.

Would you mind paying an inferior price due to my "detectable" face lift?

More importantly, would you expect full disclosure of how I altered the cards? My name, when, where, what and how???

Thank you,
Shoney Baloney

Shawn if you dump chocolate milk on your cards that�s a tough break you.

Otherwise not sure I follow your thinking?

I don�t recall the hobby having an issue with people doctoring cards to lower their value secretly before selling to folks.

Cheers,

John

t206trader · #11 03-25-2014, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokelessjoe

Johnka Wonka McDonka

Ok, I am wondering about your question? So John, if I dumped chocolate milk (that is a hypothetical liquid - could be pomegranate rind as well) on a lets say 1914 CJ Jackson and added all kinds of stains to make it look darker & dirtier or a T206 Polar Bear Cobb in the same manner.... and you could obviously tell.

Would you mind paying an inferior price due to my "detectable" face lift?

More importantly, would you expect full disclosure of how I altered the cards? My name, when, where, what and how???

Thank you,
Shoney Baloney

No use in crying over spilt milk. Sorry, had to.

KCRfan1 · #12 03-25-2014, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

So Mike if I cleaned say a 1914 CJ Jackson and removed all the stains made it look brighter and cleaner or a T206 Polar Bear Cobb in the same manner...and you couldn't tell.

You wouldn't mind to find out later you paid a premium due to my "undectable" face lift?

I believe that you only " washed your face ", to use you analogy. If you had a " face lift ", that would involve some form of reconstructive surgery. A card is only worth what someone will pay, and if I felt the card was worth what I paid then I am happy with my deal.

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