Gone with the stain. Dick Towle

[dstudeba]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

FWIW, water is not really a chemical, it's an compound - a combination of two or more elements (hydrogen and oxygen).

If you are going to make statements like this please specify your definition of a chemical. If you type chemical into google the first entry is chemical substance on wikipedia which uses water as the first example. My guess is you are referring to chemical elements. Since the only elements which are liquid at room temperature and pressure are mercury and bromine, I don't think anyone was referring to soaking cards in a chemical element.

[ethicsprof]

fabas indulcet fames.

best,
barry

[1880nonsports]

try and save a guys life and what happens :-)

[Leon]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

try and save a guys life and what happens :-)

It's a crazy world ain't it Henry?

[joeadcock]

Hey Barry

Lots opinions all over the place

[Jantz]

I know for a fact that one of these T206s below was attached in a scrapbook and took a bath in 2009.

For the record, I knew the T206 was removed from a scrapbook and who I was buying it from.

Anyone want to take a guess which T206 went for a swim?

Jantz

[smokelessjoe]

I can see that Wonka is hung up on Brite White Borders... Ok Wonka, lets say you have a card that already has Brite White Borders but also has a streak of something running horizontally across the card and unfortunately right across the players face - you cannot tell me for a fact that you know what soaking this card in water or anything else is going to do... Would you have a problem if using the water removed all the evidence of the stain? But do not forget this card has Brite White Borders before and after the soak - no change in that regard.

I see your stance (wonka) as a double standard - its convenient for you as water is something you have dealt with. This reminds of some arguments that my wife will often pose in that "I do not do it anywhere near as much as she does".

I think you are telling me as well, that you would be ok with Dick Towles process as long as the stain removal process he uses left some evidence of the stain? Is this correct?

John,
Nothing personal here - like I said earlier its an interesting subject to me.

[Edward]

Is vitamin water okay?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

try and save a guys life and what happens :-)

Thanks for my first laugh of the day!

Also, I have to congratulate all members who have been able to show certificates and licenses that are relevant to this discussion. All I can present is a copy of my MBA, but all that was good for was basic decisions related to business (also, ethics and such), and this is more of discussion of....

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by dstudeba

If you are going to make statements like this please specify your definition of a chemical. If you type chemical into google the first entry is chemical substance on wikipedia which uses water as the first example. My guess is you are referring to chemical elements. Since the only elements which are liquid at room temperature and pressure are mercury and bromine, I don't think anyone was referring to soaking cards in a chemical element.

My definition of a chemical is a substance created by chemistry (changes in the composition of molecules). There are chemicals in water - some added intentionally (chlorine), some naturally (iron, calcium), some just seep into the water supply (pesticides), but water itself is not a chemical.

Soaking a card in water is no different than soaking a card in a chemical that doesn’t leave any evidence (something you can see, smell or feel). One may not like the idea of soaking cards and that’s certainly their right, but they can not argue the fact that the end result (a card free from any evdience of soaking) is still the same rather they like the idea or not.

[dstudeba]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

My definition of a chemical is a substance created by chemistry (changes in the composition of molecules). There are chemicals in water - some added intentionally (chlorine), some naturally (iron, calcium), some just seep into the water supply (pesticides), but water itself is not a chemical.

So chlorine, iron, and calcium are created by chemistry? These chemicals are found in nature just as water is. If you are going to make up your own definitions at least make them consistent.

[Leon]

We could probably play semantics the rest of our lives but in the real world hobbyists don't consider water a chemical. It is especially true in this discussion. I have no issue with using water on a card. If I was asked I would tell, it not, probably not.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by dstudeba

So chlorine, iron, and calcium are created by chemistry? These chemicals are found in nature just as water is. If you are going to make up your own definitions at least make them consistent.

I know what I'm talking about. I hold a water license from the State of Texas. Those are my credentials. What are yours?

Do you want to keep talking and looking more foolish and do you want to shut up at this point since you really don't know what you're talking about? I would suggest the latter, but that is up to you.

[dstudeba]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I know what I'm talking about. I hold a water license from the State of Texas. Those are my credentials. What are yours?

Do you want to keep talking and looking more foolish and do you want to shut up at this point since you really don't know what you're talking about? I would suggest the latter, but that is up to you.

In Inorganic Chemistry

[frankbmd]

but they are all wet.

Does anyone else here soak their diplomas?

[Paul S]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

but they are all wet.

Does anyone else here soak their diplomas?

Nah, we get them laminated. Then, when the market goes up, we learn to dissolve.

[bn2cardz]

...disrespectful joke removed, my apologies...

[4815162342]

.

[vintagetoppsguy]

NM

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

...disrespectful joke removed, my apologies...

Rats, those are my favorite kind.

If you are like me in this respect (or disrespect), read 'Pearls Before Swine' - also, the current strips have been a parody of 'Breaking Bad', so it's actually appropriate for this thread.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

My definition of a chemical is a substance created by chemistry (changes in the composition of molecules). There are chemicals in water - some added intentionally (chlorine), some naturally (iron, calcium), some just seep into the water supply (pesticides), but water itself is not a chemical.

Water = Chemical compound (H2O)
Chlorine Chemical element (Cl)
Iron = Chemical element (Fe)
Calcium = Chemical element (Ca)

So it really sounds like you only consider a single element a chemical and not a compound?

A great site that plays with the semantics of Water being a chemical is http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html.

From the site

Dihydrogen Monoxide (DHMO) is a colorless and odorless chemical compound, also referred to by some as Dihydrogen Oxide, Hydrogen Hydroxide, Hydronium Hydroxide, or simply Hydric acid. Its basis is the highly reactive hydroxyl radical, a species shown to mutate DNA, denature proteins, disrupt cell membranes, and chemically alter critical neurotransmitters. The atomic components of DHMO are found in a number of caustic, explosive and poisonous compounds such as Sulfuric Acid, Nitroglycerine and Ethyl Alcohol.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

Water = Chemical compound (H2O)
Chlorine Chemical element (Cl)
Iron = Chemical element (Fe)
Calcium = Chemical element (Ca)

So it really sounds like you only consider a single element a chemical and not a compound?

A great site that plays with the semantics of Water being a chemical is http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html.

From the site

"Don't drink water; fish **** in it." W.C. Fields

As for soaking, cleaning, etc., it is done for one reason only: to improve the way a card looks, either for personal aesthetic reasons or to get it into a higher numbered slab for resale. All the rest is just prevarication.