Gone with the stain. Dick Towle

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by smokelessjoe

John,

I do not care for the Plank at all... Nor I do not care for your removed cards out of scrapbooks... Yes I am throwing out hypotheticals but they are not unreasonable situations...

I do not like nor do I buy into the "oh water.... its so gentle... I think i'll just toss a couple of cards in a bowl... because, well just because". If you think people remove or restore or clean-up cards to the point that one barely can tell the difference before & after the water soak your just fooling yourself. We have seen examples here on the board where people made huge differences in the before & after with just water. And of course money is never the motivator when water is used right?

You tell me how you know what in the world a bowl of warm water would remove from a card? By the way, I think apparently you would be amazed at what my mother can do to stains etc. with just warm water.

Oh & I may be splitting hairs but I have not been posting chemistry debates as you say? - you can go back to searching your desktop cache of funny pictures you swiped from the Internet etc. in hopes that you find something that fits what you are not able to verbalize....

LOL, nothing personal huh? I post pictures because I find it enjoyable. Yes some pictures come from the internet I use the internet sometimes when I visit net54.com. As for not being able to verbalize I think I’ve been pretty clear on my stance. It’s you that keeps wanting to convert me to your thinking or convince me that work like the above is no different than removing a $5 card from a scrapbook and then placing that stained clearly removed card in a binder.

If what was done by Dick and others that results in cards just like the Plank posted is no big deal in our hobby. Why asked now many times is it not mentioned with pride at the time of sale and hidden from TPGs?

Also if your mom can get work like the Plank done with just warm water then Dick should hang up his “towle”.

John

[smokelessjoe]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

LOL, nothing personal huh? I post pictures because I find it enjoyable. Yes some pictures come from the internet I use the internet sometimes when I visit net54.com. As for not being able to verbalize I think I’ve been pretty clear on my stance. It’s you that keeps wanting to convert me to your thinking or convince me that work like the above is no different than removing a $5 card from a scrapbook and then placing that stained clearly removed card in a binder.

If what was done by Dick and others that results in cards just like the Plank posted is no big deal in our hobby. Why asked now many times is it not mentioned with pride at the time of sale and hidden from TPGs?

Also if your mom can get work like the Plank done with just warm water then Dick should hang up his “towle”.

John

John,

It is nothing personal, at least to me - You took a little jab at me so I threw one back. I mean no harm and I am waving the white flag - My apologies for taking it to far.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by smokelessjoe

John,

It is nothing personal, at least to me - You took a little jab at me so I threw one back. I mean no harm and I am waving the white flag - My apologies for taking it to far.

I just read my reply to you sorry if you saw a jab in there I was just answering your question to me on you saying I was a hypocrite etc. yes guilty of silly pictures....

[vintagetoppsguy]

Personally I don't see anything wrong with the stain removal process as long as it doesn't leave any evidence behind - nothing you can see, smell or feel. For those that do have a problem with it, I respect your opinion. I can at least see where you're coming from and tell that you're very passionate about it.

Here's the part that is bothering me. Some people have mentioned disclosue upon the time of sale. I do agree with that part - especially on something like the Plank. But disclosure shouldn't be a part-time ethic, right? When one of our own board members admitting to "rolling out creases" I didn't see any of his buddies calling for "disclosure" and, for some reason, they didn't seem to be as passionate about it then as they do now. In fact, the thread went quiet pretty quickly when he questioned why he should even have to disclose it. So, again, is disclosure a part-time ethic, or in other words, does it depend on the seller whether or not they have to disclose it?

What's more wrong: rolling out a crease and not disclosing it or removing a stain and not disclosing it?

Very interesting read...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...en+cobb&page=3

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Personally I don't see anything wrong with the stain removal process as long as it doesn't leave any evidence behind - nothing you can see, smell or feel. For those that do have a problem with it, I respect your opinion. I can at least see where you're coming from and tell that you're very passionate about it.

Here's the part that is bothering me. Some people have mentioned disclosue upon the time of sale. I do agree with that part - especially on something like the Plank. But disclosure shouldn't be a part-time ethic, right? When one of our own board members admitting to "rolling out creases" I didn't see any of his buddies calling for "disclosure" and, for some reason, they didn't seem to be as passionate about it then as they do now. In fact, the thread went quiet pretty quickly when he questioned why he should even have to disclose it. So, again, is disclosure a part-time ethic, or in other words, does it depend on the seller whether or not they have to disclose it?

What's more wrong: rolling out a crease and not disclosing it or removing a stain and not disclosing it?

Very interesting read...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...en+cobb&page=3

David both are incorrect and if you’re trying to say I give Dan a pass on rolling creases and not disclosing I don’t nor did I in that thread. Both are the same tweaking a card to get a better result in order to profit from the system Dan knows this and admits it openly. I don’t dig it and am not a fan that’s my stance.

However using your stance in this entire thread if Dan removed the crease and it fell under your guidelines that it left no evidence behind you would be ok with it then? Because in that thread you were not a fan and felt Dan was pulling a fast one and had no right to bust chops on grading etc. hence our back and forth on grading standards.

“Personally I don't see anything wrong with the stain removal process as long as it doesn't leave any evidence behind - nothing you can see, smell or feel.”

So really I think this question is better aimed back towards you as I have stated my stance. Do you feel it's different crease vs. major stain and if so why? Both increase the cards value thru manipulation both can leave no trace behind…In that thread Dan took his beating for being honest and saying yep crease gone tweaked the card.

Yet the flipside here is Dick offers this exact thing as a business and even more services that include chemicals/solvents and that's defendable and no big deal as long as nobody can tell. That’s what I don’t get???

Did I abuse Dan nope, but have Dan come on here and offer it as a business. I'm also not abusing Dick (boy that sounds bad) just saying not a fan of this type of work and think its a bad trend to start IMO.

Cheers,

John