Gone with the stain. Dick Towle

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I like you too, Scott

You won't after I give my 'Noah' review

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Runscott

You won't after I give my 'Noah' review

Saw it for about 10 minutes tonight and had to leave because of a family emergency (my wife's family). I'm going to spoil it for you, Scott. They're all white and speak in English

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Saw it for about 10 minutes tonight and had to leave because of a family emergency (my wife's family). I'm going to spoil it for you, Scott. They're all white and speak in English

Sorry to hear about your family emergency, David. But regarding the movie, I just got back from it two hours ago, so spoil away.

If you want my spoiler, here it is: it isn't a literal interpretation of the Bible, and they used real actors. You'll hate it.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Runscott

... it isn't a literal interpretation of the Bible, and they used real actors. You'll hate it.

If it gets people talking, I'll consider that a win.

[nolemmings]

If it gets people talking, I'll consider that a win.

+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy
One thing that always will prevail in this hobby are those who want to impose their own opinions, morals and ethics on others and make condescending remarks if you don't agree with them.

Originally Posted by Scott F
That's all true, but we like you anyway.

Bravissimo!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

+1





Bravissimo!

Never-mind, I figured it out

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

If it gets people talking, I'll consider that a win.

If that's all it takes, then most everything in life is a win. But this one is good, AND should get people talking. I'll start a thread over in the watercooler area, and hope we can avoid fighting, but I kinda doubt it.

[ctownboy]

freakhappy,

The big deal about soaking and cleaning a card is the same thing as rolling the odometer back on a vehicle. What the card and the vehicle has gone through during its "life" is NOT being accurately represented by what is seen AFTER the cleaning (or rolling back ofthe odometer).

Look, if a 30 year- old car has 75,000 miles on it and has only been owned and driven by a little old lady, there is an expectation of how well that car has been taken care of and what condition that car is in. Because of that, that car is most likely going to sell for more than the same car that has 200,000 miles on it and whose last owner was an 18 year - old boy.

The SAME thing with a baseball card.

Until the last 20 or so years, baseball cards were meant to be collected, traded, flipped and put in bicycle spokes. They were NOT originally intended to be kept in pristine condition. Before that, they were distributed in packaging that contributed to their condition not being pristine. So, when a card IS found in great condition, the price it sells for is going to be higher than if it were in lower condition.

Rolling the odometer back on a vehicle is illegal because 1) the price you pay for the vehicle is going to be higher than it otherwise would be and 2) the perception of what you are getting and the reality of what you are getting are two different things.

With vehicles, there are maintenance and safety issues that come up with an odometer being rolled back. With cards, you do NOT know what is going to happen in time with a card that has been cleaned. You (or your heirs) might literally be banking on that card staying in the same condition and appreciating in value. But jut think what happens when you overpay for a cleaned card and either 1) the technology comes into play and it can be proven the card has been cleaned, 2) the card deteriorates or 3) both things happen.

How happy are you going to be then?

Finally, for those who think cleaning a card is okee dokey, I am sure if you have a card cleaned and the improved look causes the card to improve in grading, you ARE going to both disclose the card has been cleaned AND sell the card for the value of the lower grade, right?

David Smith

[chernieto]

Finally, for those who think cleaning a card is okee dokey, I am sure if you have a card cleaned and the improved look causes the card to improve in grading, you ARE going to both disclose the card has been cleaned AND sell the card for the value of the lower grade, right?

David Smith[/QUOTE]

Your car analogy is interesting. Everyone who is against using water or cleaning cards in any manner MUST realize they do not know the whole history of their century old cards? They could have been washed or cleaned in the cards long life. Tons of old T206'sgraded 5-6-7 have evidence of scrapbooks etc. If you find out your favorite NM graded card was "altered" by cleaning with water or whatever will you have it re slabbed to reflect what you perceive as altered? I have never cleaned a card but I have an old T202 with M.Brown that has scrapbook paper stuck to it & after owning the card for 40 years I AM going to wash it!!! And to tell the truth I am kind of excited about it. I won't sell it & if I do a perfect job it could only grade a 1 or 1.5.