1952 topps house gray/yellow

[flkersn]

Maybe feeding alternating cream and gray stock into the same print mechanism with failing red ink?

[Cliff Bowman]

The top scan is the gray back 1952 Topps Frank House, the bottom scan is a normal 1952 Topps Frank House cream back. Either I am color blind or I am ignorant about 1952 Topps gray backs, I don't see a discernible difference. If anything the bottom scan looks darker to me.

[ALR-bishop]

I have seen graders really miss on variants. I don't think you can be sure just on the scans. Hopefully someone who posts on 54 won it and can verify. Maybe Ted Z can weigh in

[Republicaninmass]

Sometimes the Gray backs scan as a lighter colored back, but there is a noticeable difference. Also, on at least the cream backs, the smudge or masking of the Tiger begins to drift up Frank's throat. I tried to make a close up of the area in question. This Tiger has some of the red, but you can see the red is beginning to splatter, as well as the streak of green often found with the Pale yellow near his throat. Some yellow tigers are much more pronounced than others, as is the green on the throat. Again notice the splattering of red going up the card, and the streak of "green", which is the lack of red, up on his throat just to the left of the adam's apple


Card


CU

[Cardboard Junkie]

I really doubt the existence of a yellow gray back House, but I would be thrilled to know for sure that one exists. I truly hope the winner of this card is a member here. Stories say that the gray backs of that series were printed in Canada....I do know many came from the great white north. Also 52's were found in some 53 wax pack in Canada. I don't know about all that but I do doubt the existence of a gray back yellow House. Prove me wrong, please. Dave.

[Republicaninmass]

I doubted it as well, until the one just sold.

[ALR-bishop]

Just looking to verify that Ted.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I have seen graders really miss on variants. I don't think you can be sure just on the scans. Hopefully someone who posts on 54 won it and can verify. Maybe Ted Z can weigh in

Hi Al

I'm seeing scans posted here that are confusing. There should be a clear distinction between a GRAY back vs. a WHITE back in these mid-series 1952 Topps cards (as
is evident here with my Billy Martin and Cass Michaels cards).

It's late now, I will look tomorrow thru my set and see if I have a gray back House card.





TED Z

[SMPEP]

100% certain this is a grey back. There are more. At least two more are known to exist. Look at the 2006 Mile High Auction (there's one from there). This has been known for years if you paid attention.

Doubtful that more than 3 exist as 3 would have appeared on a single printed sheet. Strangely all 3 that were originally printed still exist. That's amazing.

Shocked that the card went that cheap. $3,600?!?!?!? For a card that is alomst 700 times more rare than the high number Mickey Mantle rookie? I say to the new owner - What a steal! You stole this.

Think about this way folks. There are at a maximum of 3 potential master sets that exist for 1952 topps. If you do not own the grey back yellow tiger - you do not own the master set. And given who owns those three - if you don't have it now - you can't have it.

Cheers,
Patrick

[ALR-bishop]

I just hate it when I am not paying attention. I need to spend more time on this stuff .

Thanks for the info Patrick. I know there have been discussions in here in the past on what constitutes a Master 52 set ( which I am not pursuing), but I also know ( I was paying attention some of the time), that the list has been expanding ( often to include recurring print defects). What do you, or others, think now constitutes a complete 52 Master Set

And is the House yellow/gray a true variation resulting from an intentional change in the printing process, such as red and black or cream and gray backs, or just an accidental ( maybe one time) print defect ? I realize that examples of both kinds can be found in catalogs and in the registry master lists

[SMPEP]

Hi Al,

Well, in my opinion ... the grey back/yellow tiger House ends all debate about whether the grey backs are officially part of the 1952 topps set. You wouldn't have this exact variation on both white/cream and grey bakcs unless they were printed at the same time/place.

What is most interesting is that the House appears with both variations (I do not believe the third cream/white back variatuion will ever be found for the grey backs) in both grey and white/cream backs. Meaning ... that they ran at least one grey sheet (maybe 2 sheets - but I doubt more than that) with the all yellow tiger logo (presumably the very first or the last third series sheet printed) ... then changed to run it with a cream/white back set of sheets with the House yellow logo .... then noticed the logo error and corrected it ... and then ran several more grey back sheets (a minimum of 5 sheets - but more likely 10-15) ... and then switched AGAIN back to the house regular logo cream/white version. These last two steps could be reversed in order, and maybe make even more sense if reversed since the somewhere in this mix (presumably in the middle) is the partial yellow tigerlogo. Obviously the all yellow logo could have been the start or end of the third series run - but I think the start of the run makes more sense as you would correct that error, not cause that error.

So that makes this very obviously an error they caught and corrected.

It's interesting that they ran grey back sheets at two different times in the third series print run though. It made sense that the grey backs were a one time glitch/varaition cause because of paper shorttages ... but they ran the grey backs on two different occassions.

It's hard to come up with a logical reason why they would have created the grey back versions on both ends of this process - unless they did it intentionally. It's logical to think they started the run with grey paper because they had it from the second series run. It's logical to think they had it at the end because of the 4th series run. But it's a harder argument to believe that they used the two different paper versions at both the end AND beginning of the run, just by chance - rather than they did this intentionally so they could create this variation. That's the only story I can come up with that fits the facts.

Still much more to be discovered on this set. [And I'll share what I have learned about the printing process more fully once I get my grey back Reiser. If that ever happens!]

Cheers,
Patrick

Ps - Sorry if the "paying attention" comment was obnoxious! Wasn't my intent, but in retrospect, it's a poor phrase on my part. I just was saying there was a photographed card of it since the 2006 Mile High Auction, so I was surprised it has never gained the notoriety it should have until now.