The "auction" (for lack of a better word) is over. Look at what happened.

[1880nonsports]

FWIW I sold a nice SGC 50 late 2012 for 850.00. It was among the last couple of cards I sold - if not the last one (although it might have been the Matty........) that I parted with when bowing to the monster maybe 1/2 way through.
It's easy to suggest price-minipulation and much harder to prove it. The numbers reflected in past sales prices regardless of the venue one chooses to assess them are only as good as the factual information that goes into making them - these calculations are inherently flawed based on how the TPG's monitor the actual populations of each card (including crossing and resubmitting) and how actual sale prices are often obfuscated by BIN's, or not accurately reflecting private sales, best offers and other BS including shilling and dishonesty. A couple of companies have been mentioned here by name as at the very least not taking responsibility for monitoring their auctions and allowing for an over abundance of bidders with more retractions than what I imagine is the aggregate total of retractions by our total community in their lifetimes.
As evidenced from the 9 pages of history on card target - they're out there and the patient collector is rewarded more often then not.........

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

It's easy to suggest price-minipulation and much harder to prove it.

Why is it always the PWCC and Probstein auctions which have bidding histories littered with 0 and low feedback bidders, bidders with huge amounts of retractions and bidders who bid almost totally with just that seller's auctions? Why does that never happen in my auctions? Oh and why is it that PWCC auctions always have scans which are so bright that surely some darn setting must have been mistakenly made on their scanner?

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Why is it always the PWCC and Probstein auctions which have bidding histories littered with 0 and low feedback bidders, bidders with huge amounts of retractions and bidders who bid almost totally with just that seller's auctions? Why does that never happen in my auctions? Oh and why is it that PWCC auctions always have scans which are so bright that surely some darn setting must have been mistakenly made on their scanner?

I'm sure it's just a coincidence!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Why is it always the PWCC and Probstein auctions which have bidding histories littered with 0 and low feedback bidders, bidders with huge amounts of retractions and bidders who bid almost totally with just that seller's auctions? Why does that never happen in my auctions? Oh and why is it that PWCC auctions always have scans which are so bright that surely some darn setting must have been mistakenly made on their scanner?

How cool would it be to hit the trifecta -- an "improved" card, made to look even better by an overly-bright scan, shilled up to a world record price?

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Why is it always the PWCC and Probstein auctions which have bidding histories littered with 0 and low feedback bidders, bidders with huge amounts of retractions and bidders who bid almost totally with just that seller's auctions? Why does that never happen in my auctions? Oh and why is it that PWCC auctions always have scans which are so bright that surely some darn setting must have been mistakenly made on their scanner?

I blame society

[jhs5120]

Why are we blaming PWCC? To me, it looks like a bidder who previously was banned by Brent made a quick account and shilled.. How is this Brent's fault?

On a side note I sold a card that went for $40 and has a VCP around $120 last night. There are a lot of good deals through PWCC.... if you can find auctions that aren't shilled.

[bobbyw8469]

On a side note I sold a card that went for $40 and has a VCP around $120 last night. There are a lot of good deals through PWCC.... if you can find auctions that aren't shilled.

+1....I too, gave some cards away thru PWCC last night. There are deals to be had...you just have to know what you are looking for.

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Why are we blaming PWCC? To me, it looks like a bidder who previously was banned by Brent made a quick account and shilled.. How is this Brent's fault?

Doesn't ebay have a feature that allows sellers to block bidders with very low feedback?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by the-illini

Doesn't ebay have a feature that allows sellers to block bidders with very low feedback?

It's a shame ebay doesn't have a feature to block crooked sellers.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Why are we blaming PWCC? To me, it looks like a bidder who previously was banned by Brent made a quick account and shilled.. How is this Brent's fault?

Yes, I blame the scanner. Because after all, an honest guy like Brent whose auctions are littered with fraud would never have misleading scans as well -- because that might suggest he's dishonest.

[MattyC]

The scans are definitely brighter and bolder and thus not representative of the card in hand. I think anyone bidding on these must take this into consideration. The scans are so cartoonish sometimes and thus so obvious, I can't fathom why PWCC hasn't gone to normal scans. I guess not as obvious to all.

There's no denying that some PWCC auctions are shilled-- but there's also no denying that some aren't shilled. This leads me to parse the issues of the scans and the shilling. I would bet the shilling is being done by the owners of the cards themselves, as opposed to Brent commanding a legion of guys with shill accounts, masterminding which auctions to hit and which to leave alone, like some Lex Luthor super villain.

Now whether it is incumbent or not on an entity like PWCC to vet each individual auction for its duration, canceling suspected shill bids, that is an entirely separate conversation of course. I'd think hiring one dedicated person by the hour to man an email "hotline" and cancel reported shill bids would not be so expensive, and do wonders for reputation, engendering goodwill and thus business.

[bobbyw8469]

The shilling is obvious when he has two of the exact same cards up for bids. For example, 1962 Juan Marichal rookie card SGC 7. When one of the 7's is markedly better than the other one, yet the inferior 7 is double what the better example is - that tells me shill bidding is going on.

[chernieto]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Why are we blaming PWCC? To me, it looks like a bidder who previously was banned by Brent made a quick account and shilled.. How is this Brent's fault?

On a side note I sold a card that went for $40 and has a VCP around $120 last night. There are a lot of good deals through PWCC.... if you can find auctions that aren't shilled.

I agree. Brent has done an incredible job creating monthly auctions that get more views than my or most board member listings. More viewers , more bids. & strangely I have done MUCH better as a buyer- getting great deals than as a consignor. When there are 100's of T206's listed at .99cent starting price some cards can slip though the cracks-I've caught some. Other cards lke a Johnson portrait most likely won't slip through.That being said I respect Brent and his auction. I believe he is earning good money on his auctions and has integrity and would
no more intentionally Shill an auction than any of us would.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by chernieto

I agree. Brent has done an incredible job creating monthly auctions that get more views than my or most board member listings. More viewers , more bids. & strangely I have done MUCH better as a buyer- getting great deals than as a consignor. When there are 100's of T206's listed at .99cent starting price some cards can slip though the cracks-I've caught some. Other cards lke a Johnson portrait most likely won't slip through.That being said I respect Brent and his auction. I believe he is earning good money on his auctions and has integrity and would
no more intentionally Shill an auction than any of us would.

It sounds like the blind guys in this thread are buying cards from each other, but paying a consignment fee to do so. You should introduce yourselves to one another and save some bucks.

[chernieto]

Originally Posted by Runscott

It sounds like the blind guys in this thread are buying cards from each other, but paying a consignment fee to do so. You should introduce yourselves to one another and save some bucks.

I don't know Scott ...when I got a beautiful T206 graded SGC 7.5 for $ 369 in one of his auctions in the fall I was happy. If you have T206's graded like that with no issues & a price like that please let me know.

Reminds me of some lines from an old favorite song


"Comes a time when the blind man takes your hand
Says, "Don't you see?
Gotta make it somehow on the dreams you still believe
Don't give it up,"
from the Grateful Dead

Paul C