Virginia Brights boxes

[jerrys]

Just curious to know whether your Richmond packs are dated during the years the cards were inserted. The overprinted dates on tax revenue stamps prove when they were used. I have not seen a 20 with the overprint, I'd like to know. Generally the printing is in red ink but the later ones are blue. It's been nine years since I wrote the SCD article on cigarette packs but I only covered the 19th century products. Due for an update.

The first TT is a file image; the second is mine. The TT photo print is a mystery. Untold numbers of tobacco shops were supplied with photo prints to handout with every ten cent pack of TT cigarettes they sold. This form of card distribution must be unique. None survived?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jerrys

................



The first TT is a file image; the second is mine. The TT photo print is a mystery. Untold numbers of tobacco shops were supplied with photo prints to handout with every ten cent pack of TT cigarettes they sold. This form of card distribution must be unique. None survived?

If you look closely at some of my pictures above you will see your file copy of the Turkish Trophies pack, with baseball print band, sitting on my shelf . As we discussed before the thinking is it was either S81 or L1 "prints", but there is no definitive proof right now that I am aware of as to what is mentioned.

[1880nonsports]

I probably was too literal in defining photo print in the context of today's usage however it also makes no sense to me that they would have referred to their highly touted silks and leather premiums as being representative of photo prints. My guess - and most likely I'm the only supporter of such an idea - is that they were excess T3's....................
I think I give up at this point and going back to the easy questions found when exploring the vagueries of 19th century packs and cards.

[1880nonsports]

It's difficult to read the CANCELLATION on one of the 2 clamboxes but on the one with the red stamping - Factory 25 March 12, 1889. I believe that is a date frame within which a card could have been inserted into the pack.

no guarantees whether written or implied

[jerrys]

Helmar high quality premiums being given away free with a ten cent pack of TT cigarettes at an incalculable number of tobacco stores! Not possible. T3s are Turkey Red cigarettes premiums.

Is the Factory 25 March 12, 1889 the 20 pack? The date is perfect - how much is it?

[rhettyeakley]

I think you guys are overcomplicating things a bit. I have little doubt that they were likely referring to T3's.

The Turkish Cigarette brands were ATC brands and they likely didn't mind cross-advertising other products. Helmar and Turkish Trophies were very similar brands and in some cases even produced the same series of cards at the same time (T52 Costumes of All Nations). Also given the fact this is an "outside of the package" ad sticker I don't think it is outside the realm of possibilities that it was simply a test promotion or a hastily put together one (to the tune of giving out a premium with a Turkish Trophy box that doesn't specifically refer to that exact brand), also keep in mind that what we call "T3 Turkey Red" cards were also advertised and given away just as much with FEZ and OLD MILL cigarettes as they were Turkey Red, we only call them "Turkey Red" cards because some of the second series had that advertised on back without the checklist, but had the second series of cards not been produced they wouldn't be called simply "Tukey Reds" as they advertised the other brands just as much as the Turkey Red brand. Another thing to keep in mind is that maybe the ones given away with this promotion are the non-advertising "checklist only" cards that are rarely seen today.

A similar type of promotion was done with the Hamilton King (or T7) girl cards. We think of these as "send-away" premiums but I found a VERY brittle envelope some years back containing a complete set of the "Flag Girls" that had instructions for the retailer very similar to what was probably furnished with the shipment of "ball player photo prints" that we see on the Turkish Trophies boxes above...

[1880nonsports]

"I think you guys are overcomplicating things a bit. I have little doubt that they were likely referring to T3's."
"There was quite a bit of "cross-pollination" within the ATC of their inserts and premium issues."

Nicely expressed. I'm not used to having support. It seemed to me the only likely choice.
Jerry - the "20" isn't for sale.