Simple Auction Site

thehoodedcoder · #1 06-27-2014, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

Our B and L SimpleAuctionsite s/w is programmed for us to never be able to see an up-to bid and that has been from day one. Same with our previous provider. NOT ALL auction houses that use their s/w can see the max bids. Only if the AH asks or allows it, can it be done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

Our B and L SimpleAuctionsite s/w is programmed for us to never be able to see an up-to bid and that has been from day one. Same with our previous provider. NOT ALL auction houses that use their s/w can see the max bids. Only if the AH asks or allows it, can it be done.

Ok. Great. I never, once said you did look at max bids nor anyone else. I simply said it concretely does exist. I'm glad to hear you confirm this though.

I wonder to what extent this might be utilized. Maybe Bob or someone else can give us an indication as to the number of houses that have it?

Kevin

Mikehealer · #2 06-27-2014, 08:17 PM

Why don't you ask each auction house that uses the software?
Seems pretty simple.

Exhibitman · #3 06-28-2014, 07:16 AM

This is a silly argument. There are any number of ways I can arrange to manipulate an auction that do not involve software. The sellers on eBay do not see the max bids left and certainly do not control the code, yet shilling is rampant. As an auctioneer in this day and age of Federal investigations into auction house fraud you would have to be an idiot to utilize an easily traced mechanism to manipulate the outcomes.

It always comes down to integrity. The names that aren't associated with bad acts never seem to change, do they? If you don't trust the AH, don't leave a max bid!

4815162342 · #4 06-28-2014, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

This is a silly argument. There are any number of ways I can arrange to manipulate an auction that do not involve software. The sellers on eBay do not see the max bids left and certainly do not control the code, yet shilling is rampant. As an auctioneer in this day and age of Federal investigations into auction house fraud you would have to be an idiot to utilize an easily traced mechanism to manipulate the outcomes.

It always comes down to integrity. The names that aren't associated with bad acts never seem to change, do they? If you don't trust the AH, don't leave a max bid!

+1

Lordstan · #5 06-28-2014, 10:08 AM

I'm not sure what the big deal is. Leon answered the OP's first 2 questions in post 2 by referring him to the owner of the software, who is a a very active member of Net54, and answered Mike's follow up question about AH's seeing ceiling bids in post 4. He was pretty clear that it was an option of the software and that you had to check with the specific AH in question as to whether they could or not. No topic was being avoided.

Secondly, IMHO it is not incumbent on the software provider to prevent shady business practices. Breaking a law, perhaps, but even then I think it's a tricky call. Do you hold Microsoft, Apple, or Goolge responsible because people look at child porn or learn how to build bombs using their browsers? I just don't think it's as simple as that. Plus, while I am not a lawyer, I'm not aware that seeing a person's max bid is against any law.

Bad people will find a way to do bad things in all aspects of life. It is up to the consumer to find out the rules and reputation of anyone they are spending their money with and determine if they are willing to deal with them or not. Why would anyone assume that auction houses can't see their ceiling bids? Considering how many trackers are on all these websites we frequent, I always assume that the websites I use can see pretty much whatever they want. If I have a specific question or concern, I ask. If I'm not satisfied with the answer I don't use their services.

I think it comes down to this, if you don't like the way simpleauctionsite software, or any other auctions software for that matter, is used by a specific AH, don't bid in their auctions.

Mark V

Leon · #6 06-28-2014, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

Ok. Great. I never, once said you did look at max bids nor anyone else. I simply said it concretely does exist. I'm glad to hear you confirm this though.

Kevin

NO, it doesn't concretely exist.
Again, I just feel you are being divisive, as usual. The s/w has the ability to be programmed, by the provider only, to do whatever an auction house wants. It DOES NOT exist with the B and L software. I just want to set the record straight as much as you continue to try to contort it. You are continually barking up the wrong tree. Ask the auction houses, not the provider.

And if I were an auction house and got asked a question by someone such as yourself, a hacker-wannabe, I would completely disregard you or ban you from my auctions. You really are just a trouble maker imo.....

I want to add, I think it is 100% permissible to question just about anything at any time. But there can become a time when that questioning becomes abusive. All of the answers have been given at this point. To continue questioning the same thing, to me, is badgering.

thehoodedcoder · #7 06-28-2014, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

And if I were an auction house and got asked a question by someone such as yourself, a hacker-wannabe, I would completely disregard you or ban you from my auctions. You really are just a trouble maker imo.....

Wouldn't take much more than a wanna-be, I could tell you that much. Kids know how to exploit websites now a days. It's pretty self explanatory stuff any more.

I mean how hard is it to exploit a vbulletin 3.8.1 installation from 2009? Anyone can do that sort of thing. Surely you would have to better than a wannabe to do something like that wouldn't you?

I find it better to be on the side of know how, than ignorance. Wouldn't you agree with that?

Kevin

Leon · #8 06-28-2014, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehoodedcoder

Wouldn't take much more than a wanna-be, I could tell you that much. Kids know how to exploit websites now a days. It's pretty self explanatory stuff any more.

I mean how hard is it to exploit a vbulletin 3.8.1 installation from 2009? Anyone can do that sort of thing. Surely you would have to better than a wannabe to do something like that wouldn't you?

I find it better to be on the side of know how, than ignorance. Wouldn't you agree with that?

Kevin

I always want to expose fraud, security issues and bad activity in the hobby. Historically speaking, this site's members are good at that. I believe shining a light on things is much better than keeping them in the dark. I believe your intentions might be in the right place (not positive) but since you have all the answers you have asked for, at this point, a slightly different path on your journey would seem prudent. It is up to the AH's how they conduct their business. If I had less options with my provider I might not use them. It is not up to them to police the hobby. They need to provide easy to use, reliable and safe software and they do.

glchen · #9 06-28-2014, 03:04 PM

Personally I see the OPs point. If there's something in the hobby that has been abused in the past, why even give AH's that option? If eBay said they'd give the option to sellers to see their bidders max bids, there would be an uproar.

t206hound · #10 07-01-2014, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

NO, it doesn't concretely exist.
Again, I just feel you are being divisive, as usual. The s/w has the ability to be programmed, by the provider only, to do whatever an auction house wants. It DOES NOT exist with the B and L software.

I'd hazard to guess that there is not a separate version of software (code) for each client of SAS. It's a very high probability that there is just specific configuration for each client that controls the look/feel and feature set required by that client. In Leon's statement "the s/w has the ability to be programmed" more accurately should read "the s/w has the ability to be configured." There is a subtle, but important, distinction.

If that is the case, then the software (code) is the same regardless of the configuration. Therefore, there is deployed code that does allow for a user (administrator as it was mentioned) to see max bids. While configuration at the client level may not allow that feature to be utilized, it still exists. By virtue of it existing, it does leave open the possibility of misuse by an administrator, someone who is able to obtain administrative credentials, or someone who "hacks" the site to provide the information that would otherwise not be exposed.

I'm guessing that this is Kevin's concern.

thehoodedcoder · #11 07-01-2014, 02:02 PM

Ding Ding Ding.

Exactly.

Kevin

bobfreedman · #12 07-01-2014, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t206hound

I'd hazard to guess that there is not a separate version of software (code) for each client of SAS. It's a very high probability that there is just specific configuration for each client that controls the look/feel and feature set required by that client. In Leon's statement "the s/w has the ability to be programmed" more accurately should read "the s/w has the ability to be configured." There is a subtle, but important, distinction.

If that is the case, then the software (code) is the same regardless of the configuration. Therefore, there is deployed code that does allow for a user (administrator as it was mentioned) to see max bids. While configuration at the client level may not allow that feature to be utilized, it still exists. By virtue of it existing, it does leave open the possibility of misuse by an administrator, someone who is able to obtain administrative credentials, or someone who "hacks" the site to provide the information that would otherwise not be exposed.

I'm guessing that this is Kevin's concern.

The auction house administrators CAN NOT turn on and off the ability to see the max bids. Only one person in our in our entire company can do that and he is the other owner in the company.

In summary, Kevin has no knowledge of any inner workings of our software and any claims otherwise are lies and, no one except one of the owners in the company has the ability to turn on and off the ability in seeing the max bids.

Peter_Spaeth · #13 07-01-2014, 04:00 PM

But is it a fact that some auction houses ask to have the ability to see max bids?

bobfreedman · #14 07-01-2014, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

But is it a fact that some auction houses ask to have the ability to see max bids?