Ruth can do the impossible!

Runscott · #1 07-08-2014, 10:51 PM

I should add that I am very impressed with the way Ken attempts to photo-match game-used stuff. That's something that all hobbyists should be demanding, and it's something that actually could easily be done for every single game-used item that is sold. As I associate that forum more with Ken than anyone else, I obviously have respect for it.

Nyygameused · #2 07-08-2014, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

I should add that I am very impressed with the way Ken attempts to photo-match game-used stuff. That's something that all hobbyists should be demanding, and it's something that actually could easily be done for every single game-used item that is sold. As I associate that forum more with Ken than anyone else, I obviously have respect for it.

Ok guys, maybe we should start anew, I've introduced myself and still am learning how to navigate this forum. I'm honestly looking to add a few authentic ruth items to my collection and seem to be uncovering an underworld that has 50+ Years for me to catch up on. I hope the first 20 or so posts on this thread can educate someone down the road

Runscott · #3 07-08-2014, 11:10 PM

The Ruth underworld is huge - it's much worse than I could ever have dreamed when I first started my search. It took me a couple of years of intense studying and research before I finally pulled the trigger on one. What I eventually decided was that, while most forgers are not great, there are some that are so good that I could not purchase a Ruth autograph simply based on the signature. When I was ready to pull the trigger on a typed letter on Ruth letterhead, I compared the type fonts of the letterhead and the typewritten letter, to other examples from the period, and didn't bid because of minuscule differences that probably didn't even exist. No cuts for me, no baseballs, no photos, and certainly no '33 Goudeys. But when I finally did acquire one, I was very confident.

Now I'm going through the same ordeal with Lou Gehrig, and I've even passed on examples that were priced right and had the go-ahead from two highly-respected experts on this forum. I think there are a lot of guys here who go about it the same way I do, so we are very protective of the hobby, and probably over-cynical when it comes to posts about the uber-autos.

You would be surprised how many fake Ruths are proudly posted here by new owners, and I bite my lip and do not respond. I've sent a few PM's instead, and gotten my ass chewed. It's a very sensitive subject.

Nyygameused · #4 07-08-2014, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

The Ruth underworld is huge - it's much worse than I could ever have dreamed when I first started my search. It took me a couple of years of intense studying and research before I finally pulled the trigger on one. What I eventually decided was that, while most forgers are not great, there are some that are so good that I could not purchase a Ruth autograph simply based on the signature. When I was ready to pull the trigger on a typed letter on Ruth letterhead, I compared the type fonts of the letterhead and the typewritten letter, to other examples from the period, and didn't bid because of minuscule differences that probably didn't even exist. No cuts for me, no baseballs, no photos, and certainly no '33 Goudeys. But when I finally did acquire one, I was very confident.

Now I'm going through the same ordeal with Lou Gehrig, and I've even passed on examples that were priced right and had the go-ahead from two highly-respected experts on this forum. I think there are a lot of guys here who go about it the same way I do, so we are very protective of the hobby, and probably over-cynical when it comes to posts about the uber-autos.

You would be surprised how many fake Ruths are proudly posted here by new owners, and I bite my lip and do not respond. I've sent a few PM's instead, and gotten my ass chewed. It's a very sensitive subject.

Scott my first authentic ruth item was a fan letter with a reply from ruth. I took the Same precautions as you. Needless to say I think you and I have the same understanding on ruth items as I have stood away from just autos, I simply look for complete package type items. I hope you can take a step back and realize I was looking to share an authentic ruth auto that is being replicated so none of us are taken in this scam.

shelly · #5 07-09-2014, 10:43 AM

There are a ton of people on this site from NY. In all the time I have been on this site I have never seen anyone use" MYMAN." Never used in a term of respect or disrespect.
It seems that people that I do respect feel that your not a bad guy. I will go along with them untill proven wrong.
I am sure if you are a modern day expert on the Yankee's that knowledge will help some of the people on here.

Nyygameused · #6 07-09-2014, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelly

There are a ton of people on this site from NY. In all the time I have been on this site I have never seen anyone use" MYMAN." Never used in a term of respect or disrespect.
It seems that people that I do respect feel that your not a bad guy. I will go along with them untill proven wrong.
I am sure if you are a modern day expert on the Yankee's that knowledge will help some of the people on here.

My circles clearly don't intertwine with yours sir. Regardless, I don't think I can get the thread back on track after all this but I'll give it a try.

I found the original card, I think:

http://catalog.scpauctions.com/lot-209.aspx

Runscott · #7 07-09-2014, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyygameused

My circles clearly don't intertwine with yours sir. Regardless, I don't think I can get the thread back on track after all this but I'll give it a try.

I found the original card, I think:

http://catalog.scpauctions.com/lot-209.aspx

I don't think the thread is that bad. You know our concerns and how we react to certain things, and we know who you are. Everything seems civil.

As an aside, I have been accumulating Ruth autographs, both authentic and also the best forgeries I could find, in a file (no cuts are otherwise blank cards). I went back to look at them and couldn't remember which ones I was certain were real

I would like to build a file based on the opinions of forum members, but there is so much disagreement on 'real vs forgery', even here that I couldn't ask member to post the Ruths that they are '100%' sure are real (other than 'some' checks and legal documents), since there will be others here who feel 100% that the same signatures are fakes.

It would end up as a battle of Ruthian proportions, perhaps even Gehriguan or Mantleopic. Dimaggestic?

djson1 · #8 07-09-2014, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

.....

You would be surprised how many fake Ruths are proudly posted here by new owners, and I bite my lip and do not respond. I've sent a few PM's instead, and gotten my ass chewed. It's a very sensitive subject.

Scott, don't bite your lip when you see things that are suspect. Since nobody is 100% accurate, it will help other members (especially the "proud owners") to know what may be suspect about their item. I know we don't like to piss on anybody's parade, but if it's a reasonable analysis, we would all love to hear it and share knowledge. I definitely like to hear from fellow collectors on why they think something is fake and it helps us stay away from such crap in the future (and save us some hard earned money!).

I hope that wasn't the case when I posted my 1931 Cubs ball with Hornsby and Hack Wilson. I only got 2 semi-opinions on here, so I was wondering if maybe somebody was holding back their negative opinion. I hope not!

Runscott · #9 07-09-2014, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djson1

Scott, don't bite your lip when you see things that are suspect. Since nobody is 100% accurate, it will help other members (especially the "proud owners") to know what may be suspect about their item. I know we don't like to piss on anybody's parade, but if it's a reasonable analysis, we would all love to hear it and share knowledge. I definitely like to hear from fellow collectors on why they think something is fake and it helps us stay away from such crap in the future (and save us some hard earned money!).

I hope that wasn't the case when I posted my 1931 Cubs ball with Hornsby and Hack Wilson. I only got 2 semi-opinions on here, so I was wondering if maybe somebody was holding back their negative opinion. I hope not!

I can think of two instances, both Ruth, where I contacted the owner via PM. In one case the guy had just bought a horrible ball for 1/3 of normal price. I warned him, hoping it had not yet been shipped. He was grateful. Another time I simply PM'd someone asking a couple of questions, as I already knew the guy was sensitive and uneducated. He went through the roof. He was ungrateful. Now I keep my mouth shut when a forum member posts something he has acquired, unless he asks for opinions. I have also contacted several auction houses letting them know that Ruths or early Mantles were forgeries. Not once has one of these been taken down, but I will continue to let them know - I think the AH owners actually believe me, but they have already signed on with a TPA and cannot contradict them.

earlywynnfan · #10 07-09-2014, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

I can think of two instances, both Ruth, where I contacted the owner via PM. In one case the guy had just bought a horrible ball for 1/3 of normal price. I warned him, hoping it had not yet been shipped. He was grateful. Another time I simply PM'd someone asking a couple of questions, as I already knew the guy was sensitive and uneducated. He went through the roof. He was ungrateful. Now I keep my mouth shut when a forum member posts something he has acquired, unless he asks for opinions. I have also contacted several auction houses letting them know that Ruths or early Mantles were forgeries. Not once has one of these been taken down, but I will continue to let them know - I think the AH owners actually believe me, but they have already signed on with a TPA and cannot contradict them.

I would definitely want to know if the respectable people on here disagreed with an auto I posted. It happened a few years ago, and although I didn't want to hear it, that auto is in my "nope" box in the basement.

Runscott · #11 07-09-2014, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I would definitely want to know if the respectable people on here disagreed with an auto I posted. It happened a few years ago, and although I didn't want to hear it, that auto is in my "nope" box in the basement.

It could just be that lots of people looked at your autograph, thought it was fine, but didn't bother responding. I've posted lots of early Mantles that I thought would be interesting to forum members, and gotten no response at all, and I am certain they were real. I have also posted obvious Mantle forgeries that were authenticated, and gotten no response. But when a newer Mantle is posted (1990-2014) you always get a lot of response - they are obviously much more interesting.

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