The Actual Top 20 Lifetime HR Leaders (OT)

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by sniffy5

Frank Thomas came from the world of college football. Lord knows what he may have experimented with. But he's another really nice guy. It seems to me that fans really only truly vilify players that broke truly cherished records while obviously using steroids or HGH. Although McGwire gets a pass from some because he eventually admitted it ( far too late.) Bonds, Sosa...forget it. Same with Clemens. People hate him for his lies, his cheating, and his relationship with a 10TH GRADE girl when he was a married 30 year old man (she has since committed suicide.) And if course Palmeiro. But guys like Thomas, Pujols, even Pudge Rodriguez, who was down there in Texas juicing with Juan Gonzales and Canseco...nobody seems to care so much anymore. But if Pujols or Ortiz starting sniffing 61 or 715, it would be a different story...

While I probably am at least a little bid bias towards a hometown player, Frank Thomas's body has been same since he was in high school.

[packs]

Pudge has always been someone I personally think may have dipped into the PEDs.

In 1992 he was listed at 5'9 165 pounds.

In 1995, 3 years later, he was listed at 5'9 205 pounds.

Maybe it's possible to add 40 pounds of muscle in 3 season at the gym. But that seems like a lot to me.

[sniffy5]

Wasn't Ivan Rodriguez also hitting 50 HRs at one point as well?

[packs]

No he topped out at 35.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by sniffy5

Wasn't Ivan Rodriguez also hitting 50 HRs at one point as well?

Not even close. 35 or so was his max. You may be thinking of Gonzalez or Palmeiro.

[sniffy5]

Yeah, I don't have his stats in front of me. But I do recall a point when his offense went suspiciously berserk for a while during the steroid craze. But I agree, 35 hrs for a catcher isn't weird. Maybe he had crazy BA with lots of doubles and run production???

[packs]

Not that weird but Pudge did just so happen to put up his career year and won an MVP award the same season (1999) Rafael Palmeiro joined the Rangers and hit 47 homers. That doesn't bode well.

[MattyC]

Regarding increased muscle mass as proof of steroid use... A lot of fans just have no idea what serious training and nutrition can do to transform a body-- let alone a body that is already a genetically gifted specimen. Some people have never made intense training and nutrition a major part of their lives, and cannot fathom what the human body is truly capable of achieving. Point being that increasing lean mass and one's physique is by no means at all proof positive of steroids. I am not a pro athlete by any means at all, and at 6'1" I reduced body fat and added 10 lbs of lean mass in multiple consecutive years (and in my thirties, no less; I am 37 now), just by training intensely and taking nutrition very seriously. In contrast a pro athlete with a tremendous frame who wants to improve and has expert trainers and nutritionists on call can make immense gains in lean mass without the need of steroids.

[Tabe]

Pudge only hit 30 HRs once (the 1999 MVP season). He had other seasons of 20, 21, 25 & 27 HRs but mostly hit like 17-19 per year. The 1999 season IS an outlier but his 2000 season is more suspicious. It's a year after Raffy joined the squad and he hit 27 HRs - in just 91 games.

Quite frankly, I thought Pudge was in the "yeah, there's no doubt he used" group. He got significantly smaller once testing started. He never got popped for anything but, yeah, he's a no-brainer for me.