"Vast Majority of HOF Autographs Are Fake"

[David Atkatz]

An actual "clubhouse" signature or a "secretarial" signature is not a forgery. It is a proxy. Proxy signatures are made with the knowledge, consent and authorization of the would-be signer. Forgeries are not.

[drcy]

I've seen old MLB contracts where there is a 'clubhouse' (proxy) signature and just below the signature is written the identity of the person who signed the signature. Once it was a team VP signing the name of the President on the dotted line, then signing his own 'signed by' name underneath. In that case, the VP himself was a well known old time Yankees executive, so it was no major autograph collecting disappointment.

[David Atkatz]

E. G. Barrow signed contracts as Yankee owner Jacob Ruppert quite often. Occasionally he would initial the proxy signature, but most often would not.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

An actual "clubhouse" signature or a "secretarial" signature is not a forgery. It is a proxy. Proxy signatures are made with the knowledge, consent and authorization of the would-be signer. Forgeries are not.

+1

[shelly]

I will ask this question on this thread as well.
I feel that there is no such think as a single signed clubhouse ball. Know just pretend there is such a thing. Would a Ruth with a clubhouse signiture be worth more than a forged ball? I am going by how David described the difference between the two.

[djson1]

At least to me as a collector, I wouldn't distinguish between something that was "secretarial" or "clubhouse" versus a flat-out forgery. The proxy or consensual definition doesn't make it any less of a fake signature. So, the ball player knows consents and authorizes somebody else to sign his signature...but it's still not his. I don't want Charlie "The Brow's" scribbling even if Gil Hodges WAS watching him sign the ball. Plus, how do we know if something really was secretarial or clubhouse anyways? (not that it makes any difference to me anyhow)

[Exhibitman]

"after being kicked off a train for drunkenness he was apparently swept over Niagara Falls. A few hand-written letters with his name misspelled, Delehanty, are floating around"

Bravo!

[HRBAKER]

The proxy or consensual definition doesn't make it any less of a fake signature.

Agree with this even though the origin of the signature may not have been meant to defraud.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

The proxy or consensual definition doesn't make it any less of a fake signature.

Agree with this even though the origin of the signature may not have been meant to defraud.

Agree, the difference between a fake and a forgery is the intent. The intent is always monetary gain with a forgery.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

The proxy or consensual definition doesn't make it any less of a fake signature.

Agree with this even though the origin of the signature may not have been meant to defraud.

There is quite a difference. An American League contract with a forged Ruppert signature was and is a worthless piece of paper. An American League contract with a proxy Ruppert signature was a valid legal document, binding upon both player and Club.