Problems with two championship rings in upcoming Heritage Auction

[zachtruitt]

Your examples and pictures speak for themselves. Thank you Michael. I hope the information makes its way to the right people.

[sports-rings]

Originally Posted by zachtruitt

Your examples and pictures speak for themselves. Thank you Michael. I hope the information makes its way to the right people.

4 days left to go in the internet portion of the auction and still no changes in the descriptions of both rings.

If anyone speaks to Chris Ivy or any of the other sports memorabilia experts at Heritage before the live auction can you please show them or alert them to the blown up pictures in this thread?

I'm disappointed that such a huge auction house with such a large and knowledgeable staff allows these two listings to go unchanged for so long and let this situation fester.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by sports-rings

4 days left to go in the internet portion of the auction and still no changes in the descriptions of both rings.

If anyone speaks to Chris Ivy or any of the other sports memorabilia experts at Heritage before the live auction can you please show them or alert them to the blown up pictures in this thread?

I'm disappointed that such a huge auction house with such a large and knowledgeable staff allows these two listings to go unchanged for so long and let this situation fester.

These guys like to ban people who openly express doubt about their items.
I got banned for allowing my autograph opinions to be used in the Hauls of Shame web site. They claimed I was working for Peter Nash and did not want someone who does that to be registered with them. But they will allow Hall of Fame thieves to be in their employ. Makes sense right?

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

These guys like to ban people who openly express doubt about their items.
I got banned for allowing my autograph opinions to be used in the Hauls of Shame web site. They claimed I was working for Peter Nash and did not want someone who does that to be registered with them. But they will allow Hall of Fame thieves to be in their employ. Makes sense right?

As I have said, Mike Gutierrez is a clown. No offense to clowns intended

[sports-rings]

Heritage has removed the two auction items.

I appreciate Chris investigating this matter and then removing the items upon their findings.

In his response that he posted on net54, I interpreted one of his comments to be a hint that there could be a lawsuit against me because of their policy to protect their consigners' best interests.

I hope Chris remembers that I am a winning bidder and participator in many of their auctions and that I have consigned some high-end football rings in the past to his auction house.

After dealing with this matter and a hint of possible legal action I can see why others are not always so fast to jump in and alert the collecting community to problems.

As Chris stated in his response, I tried to alert him privately about this matter. My intension was to help them - not to hurt them.

I only took this matter publicly when I felt that we were nearing the auction. Chris and I see the timing differently, and I feel that my opinion should count too - I feel I was justified to no longer wait but to alert the collecting community. Chris feels differently and has stated why in his response on this board.

So I hope, when Chris sits down and decides who to protect, I hope he remembers that I have helped contribute to their bottom line and I hope they don't ruin our relationship with banning me or worse a lawsuit. That would hurt their bottom line too.

[Duluth Eskimo]

I think of the old saying, "don't bite the hand that feeds you". Wait, you have been feeding them for quite some time with your bidding and consigning. I guess the other old saying comes in to play, "what have you done for me lately".

I took the same thing from his comments. It's really too bad. I know very little about rings, but know quite a bit of vintage memorabilia in general. I think your detail and description of the items in question was quite overwhelming to your point. In the end, I think you did the right thing. Jason

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by sports-rings

Heritage has removed the two auction items.

I appreciate Chris investigating this matter and then removing the items upon their findings.

In his response that he posted on net54, I interpreted one of his comments to be a hint that there could be a lawsuit against me because of their policy to protect their consigners' best interests.

I hope Chris remembers that I am a winning bidder and participator in many of their auctions and that I have consigned some high-end football rings in the past to his auction house.

After dealing with this matter and a hint of possible legal action I can see why others are not always so fast to jump in and alert the collecting community to problems.

As Chris stated in his response, I tried to alert him privately about this matter. My intension was to help them - not to hurt them.

I only took this matter publicly when I felt that we were nearing the auction. Chris and I see the timing differently, and I feel that my opinion should count too - I feel I was justified to no longer wait but to alert the collecting community. Chris feels differently and has stated why in his response on this board.

So I hope, when Chris sits down and decides who to protect, I hope he remembers that I have helped contribute to their bottom line and I hope they don't ruin our relationship with banning me or worse a lawsuit. That would hurt their bottom line too.

Michael,
You did the right thing. Net54 is a community and you were simply warning people of some inconsistencies in an item that could possibly be had at a large amount of money. I don't understand bringing a lawsuit against someone based on "protecting the consignors best interest" - I mean, what does that even mean? It's always drove me crazy when Heritage sends item to "print" for their catalog that haven't been fully checked out. I'm sorry, but if I am going to spend that kind of money on an item, then it better be fully sealed with no cracks at all in the story. This had too many cracks and who knows if the posts here forced their hand at removing the items.

[William Farrell]

Originally Posted by sports-rings

I ruin our relationship with banning me or worse a lawsuit.

A lawsuit based on what? For posting facts in a discussion on a discussion forum concerning auction items that you had good reason to believe were of a questionable nature?

[ooo-ribay]

Awesome work, Michael.

I learned a lot from this thread. The hobby needs good policemen like you. I don't have an opinion, one way or another, on Heritage but we all know that some auction houses have been less than forthcoming in the past.

As a bonus, the thread read like a good "whodunit."

[William Farrell]

Originally Posted by sports-rings

4 days left to go in the internet portion of the auction and still no changes in the descriptions of both rings.

If anyone speaks to Chris Ivy or any of the other sports memorabilia experts at Heritage before the live auction can you please show them or alert them to the blown up pictures in this thread?

I'm disappointed that such a huge auction house with such a large and knowledgeable staff allows these two listings to go unchanged for so long and let this situation fester.

Michael, thank you for your vigilance on this matter.

On a related note, I'm very curious as to any opinion or observations you may have concerning the Babe Ruth/Gruen 1923 World Championship pocket watch (awarded that year instead of a ring) auctioned for $750K by Heritage recently.

[sports-rings]

Originally Posted by William Farrell

Michael, thank you for your vigilance on this matter.

On a related note, I'm very curious as to any opinion or observations you may have concerning the Babe Ruth/Gruen 1923 World Championship pocket watch (awarded that year instead of a ring) auctioned for $750K by Heritage recently.

I don't have any experience or knowledge about pocket watches.

I am not affiliated with, or work with, or endorse Peter Nash who runs the website hauls of shame. Peter did an in depth story on the watch and claimed the watch had issues.

I would suggest you google about the watch and throw in Hauls of Shame into your search.

[William Farrell]

Originally Posted by sports-rings

I don't have any experience or knowledge about pocket watches.

I am not affiliated with, or work with, or endorse Peter Nash who runs the website hauls of shame. Peter did an in depth story on the watch and claimed the watch had issues.

I would suggest you google about the watch and throw in Hauls of Shame into your search.

I had noticed the issue with the non-sequentially unrelated serial numbering prior to reading the HOS website page on it. Knowing what I do about watches, it struck me as odd, especially that the engraving was different than his team-mates' watches and 1920s Gruen Veri-thin pocket watches are not much of a rarity, readily available in the vintage pocket watch marketplace.

I know your knowledge of championship rings is second to none in the field, so I was hoping you'd be equally knowledgeable on a related championship award, and eager for your input.