Mastro/Allen

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by Runscott

That's something worth contemplating. Not commenting on their crimes, but I spent a great evening at the National, along with several other collector friends, talking with Doug and Mark over drinks. Yes, Doug was extremely likable. I have to admit - that time was assuredly more enjoyable than it would have been spending it talking with a very honest asshole.

My guess and its just a guess that hanging out with Willie Sutton, John Dillinger or Jesse James over a few beers would have been fun too
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[William Farrell]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

My guess and its just a guess that hanging out with Willie Sutton, John Dillinger or Jesse James over a few beers would have been fun too
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jim@stinsonsports.com

My web site
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Fun, as long as you didn't throw good money after bad on an endless array of deliberately misrepresented, fraudulent merchandise. That's never any fun, no matter how entertaining and enchanting the con-men are, IMO.
All that fake sentiment, phony cheer and overly gregarious goodwill is only a well planned distracting while they search for the soft spot to stick the knife in and gut your wallet, and that's all it is.

[Runscott]

My comment was straight-forward, in direct response to the OP's lawyer's bit of wisdom. I've re-read it and don't see anything wrong with it - it basically confirms what the OP's lawyer said. If any of you choose to read into it that I support Doug's behavior, then go ahead and be delusional - I can't help you with that.

It's easy to get up on a soapbox in a situation like this, but it took a lot of people like us to make Mastro successful, and we have been talking about this for a long, long time, all the while continuing to keep his business afloat while we knew shilling was going on and items were being misrepresented, and then there's the trimmed Wagner thing, which was kind of a big deal as well. Lot of turning the other way prior to realization that jail-time was inevitable. Now there's barely any room on the soapbox.

[William Farrell]

Originally Posted by Runscott

then there's the trimmed Wagner thing, which was kind of a big deal as well. Lot of turning the other way prior to realization that jail-time was inevitable. Now there's barely any room on the soapbox.

The trimmed Wagner was no longer a secret from the day when PSA slabbed it, grading it NM/MT. Many potential buyers of that card that were sent Xeroxes (no scanners in those days) of the card by up to a dozen different people trying to middle a deal without having to lay out the $20 or $25K the owner wanted for the oversized T-206 with the wavy edge and blunted corners.

As soon as THE card appeared to the public eye PSA graded with four perfect corners and the wavy edge guillotined off (yes, it was chop/impact cut with a long blade, a hammer strike on the opposite from business end of the blade) the cat was out of the bag.

It came as no surprise, really. Stretched and whacked, then bleached T-206 cards were the ordure of the day, and the middle-men trying to turn the Wagner went overboard stressing the sales pitch, "It's oversized. Use your imagination".

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by William Farrell

The trimmed Wagner was no longer a secret from the day when PSA slabbed it, grading it NM/MT. Many potential buyers of that card that were sent Xeroxes (no scanners in those days) of the card by up to a dozen different people trying to middle a deal without having to lay out the $20 or $25K the owner wanted for the oversized T-206 with the wavy edge and blunted corners.

As soon as THE card appeared to the public eye PSA graded with four perfect corners and the wavy edge guillotined off (yes, it was chop/impact cut with a long blade, a hammer strike on the opposite from business end of the blade) the cat was out of the bag.

It came as no surprise, really. Stretched and whacked, then bleached T-206 cards were the ordure of the day, and the middle-men trying to turn the Wagner went overboard stressing the sales pitch, "It's oversized. Use your imagination".

William, I don't know how long you have been reading this forum, but as unreal as it might now seem, we had many forum members who believed the T206 Wagner might not have been trimmed. It was flabbergasting to have to read such posts for ten years.

[SikSyko]

Originally Posted by Runscott

we had many forum members who believed the T206 Wagner might not have been trimmed.

I thought it was cut down from a uncut sheet/strip from the start. Did not know about the over sized one that was around.

[William Farrell]

Originally Posted by Runscott

William, I don't know how long you have been reading this forum, but as unreal as it might now seem, we had many forum members who believed the T206 Wagner might not have been trimmed. It was flabbergasting to have to read such posts for ten years.

Before the book came out and the general hobby knowledge about the sliced and diced Wagner became common-place, I imagine you would have to have been offered the pre-trimmed card or known of someone who was offered the card and seen a copy of the Xerox that was circulating at the time prior to its PSA grading.

When the card showed up PSA slabbed, those that had seen or had a copy of the Xerox for purchase contemplation would have been among the first to realize that this was the wavy edged, blunt cornered Wagner and someone had purchased it and indeed "used their imagination".

Of course, it took the hobbyists who never saw the Xerox quite awhile to absorb the reality.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by William Farrell

The trimmed Wagner was no longer a secret from the day when PSA slabbed it, grading it NM/MT. Many potential buyers of that card that were sent Xeroxes (no scanners in those days) of the card by up to a dozen different people trying to middle a deal without having to lay out the $20 or $25K the owner wanted for the oversized T-206 with the wavy edge and blunted corners.

As soon as THE card appeared to the public eye PSA graded with four perfect corners and the wavy edge guillotined off (yes, it was chop/impact cut with a long blade, a hammer strike on the opposite from business end of the blade) the cat was out of the bag.

It came as no surprise, really. Stretched and whacked, then bleached T-206 cards were the ordure of the day, and the middle-men trying to turn the Wagner went overboard stressing the sales pitch, "It's oversized. Use your imagination".

The problem is they bought the pitch. That is what this business is all about.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

My guess and its just a guess that hanging out with Willie Sutton, John Dillinger or Jesse James over a few beers would have been fun too
_____________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

My web site
stinsonsports.com

John Reed wrote an excellent book about traveling with Pancho Villa. I'm no journalist, but I had never met Doug or Mark, and wanted to see what they were like in person. And yes, I would rather have a few beers with Jesse James or John Dillinger than other more honest people I can think of.

I'm wondering how that statement is going to get twisted into my condoning murder or bank robbery. Okay, through wondering.

[shelly]

Let me very clear. When you break the law 99 percent of the time you know exactly what you are doing.
All the people that thought Mastro was god now wish him in hell. Doug Allen same thing. They deserve what they get. The only thing that really upsets me is that PSA and JSA are part of all this.
Just a side note. Yes I am speaking from being one of those people who where arrested.
Many of you still did business with Allen even though you knew he was a bad guy. This hobby is like the house of pain. The more you get your butt kicked the more you like it.

[autograf]

For many stuff.outweighs.all

[turtleguy64]

anyone hear something about Allen's court date scheduled for this month,in fact coming up soon from news reports.it's been very quiet on this front,making me think that a plea deal for reduced time is in the works.Who else could be dragged down in this deal ?

[ruth-gehrig]

Anyone have a picture of the Wagner "pre-trimmed"?

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by turtleguy64

anyone hear something about Allen's court date scheduled for this month,in fact coming up soon from news reports.it's been very quiet on this front,making me think that a plea deal for reduced time is in the works.Who else could be dragged down in this deal ?

Would they still offer a plea deal after tacking on new charges of obstruction?