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#1
08-25-2014, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
It's just too bad, because he was an exceptional ballplayer.
__________________
Building these sets: T206, 1953 Bowman Color, 1975 Topps. Great transactions with: piedmont150, Cardboard Junkie, z28jd, t206blogcom, tinkertoeverstochance, trobba, Texxxx, marcdelpercio, t206hound, zachs, tolstoi, IronHorse 2130, AndyG09, BBT206, jtschantz, lug-nut, leaflover, Abravefan11, mpemulis, btcarfagno, BlueSky, and Frankbmd. 
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#2
08-25-2014, 09:47 AM
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Rose was a compulsive gambler, which in most instances also turns you into a compulsive liar.
He claims to have never bet against the Reds. Yeah right. He says he never did anything to attempt to manipulate the outcome of a game. Yeah right. He says he never bet on a game as a player. Yeah right. Even if he didn't bet on a game until he was a manager, do people not see how problematic that is? He is the manager in charge of a game. He has full ability to sub in a pitcher, take a pitcher out, sub in a pinch hitter, not play a particular player on a given day, etc. Anyone who believes him when he says he didn't bet against the Reds is fooling themselves. Since when do compulsive gamblers chasing money have ethics about what they gamble on? There will never be any way to know what he did or didn't do to manipulate the outcome of games or whether or not he ever lost a game on purpose. Stay out of baseball. Stay out of the HOF. Last edited by packs; 08-25-2014 at 03:00 PM.
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#3
08-25-2014, 11:31 AM
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One more thing to add about his authority as a manager. If he subs in players or pitchers in one game to ensure his victory in that specific game, only to jeopardize his players or team in a future game that to me would be the much like betting on your team to lose. Not exactly the same, but it makes you think. Jason
PS: I loved Rose as a player, but it's a fact that every locker room specifically has those signs for this exact reason. Rose is a liar and he has always believed that he is above the game and everyone in it.
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#4
08-25-2014, 12:11 PM
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There is just no way that a guy decides to begin gambling when he becomes a manager. And as pointed out, for at least 3 seasons he was a player/manager. Bad behavior starts early. I'm not seeing how anyone can honestly think he wasn't out there gambling and potentially fixing outcomes to his benefit (or at least attempting to) as a player.
Last edited by packs; 08-25-2014 at 12:13 PM.
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#5
08-25-2014, 12:15 PM
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If I remember right, Dowd had solid evidence that Rose was gambling on baseball in ‘85 and ‘86. Still, Rose may have been too self-absorbed in chasing Cobb to wager much in 1985. After all, he had to pencil himself in at 1b for 500 AB to get the hit record– first base for a guy who had no pop (2 HR), no speed (8 SB), no glove, and a .264 BA. Team first, right Pete? Bet on it.
__________________
Now watch what you say, or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh, fanatical, criminal Won't you sign up your name? We'd like to feel you're acceptable, respectable, presentable, a vegetable If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.- Ulysses S. Grant, 18th US President.
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#6
08-25-2014, 12:56 PM
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I agree, but let's be realistic to what the team wanted. Rose was a draw and the Reds benefitted.
__________________
Tiger collector Need: Harry Heilmann auto Monster Number 520/520
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#7
08-25-2014, 01:22 PM
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No doubt. The Reds wanted butts in the seats and for him to get the record, and the team did finish in second place. It was the only fit that would have allowed him to get the record in 1985 and maybe ever-- I doubt any AL team would have plugged him in at DH to get the record in a city where he had no history.
Makes you wonder though. The Reds had Nick Esasky and his 21 HRs in LF. Esasky was basically a 3b and should have played there ahead of old and by then lousy Buddy Bell. Still, they had groomed Esasky for 1b also the year prior. So putting him at first instead of Rose would have freed up outfield ABs for a young Eric Davis and a young Paul O'Neill. Hey, I've got more than enough disgust about Rose's gambling, lying and arrogance for this '85 lineup thing to really matter to me, but just thought it helped take some of the polish off of the "Pete Rose was all about winning" mantra.
__________________
Now watch what you say, or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh, fanatical, criminal Won't you sign up your name? We'd like to feel you're acceptable, respectable, presentable, a vegetable If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.- Ulysses S. Grant, 18th US President.
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#8
08-28-2014, 09:23 AM
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Agreed, the clubhouse sign say's NO Gambling! How do we know he didn't, in his own way as manager, try to throw games because he was in debt. It's a sharp distinct line, he crossed it.
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#9
08-25-2014, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
__________________
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#10
08-25-2014, 06:29 PM
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Interesting feedback. Here on Net54, the majority of those who gave input are against Rose's reinstatement. According to ESPN's Poll (last I saw was 275,000 plus), 83% were for his reinstatement...Wow, go figure....
Last edited by CMIZ5290; 08-25-2014 at 06:47 PM.
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#11
08-25-2014, 09:05 PM
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I loved him as a player but don't think it would be the best move for the incoming commissioner to reinstate Pete now or ever. He thought he was bigger than the game and disregarded its most important rule. I really don't think we will ever know all there is to know about Rose. What was a player of his stature doing running around with Tommy Gioiosa? Nonetheless, I think Pete is going to be just fine.
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