Gonzalez and Wren must go...

[Shoebox]

I wont say that a manager makes no difference at all but I think its pretty minimal. The Dodgers hsd a rather similar record to the Brewers example you gave. Mattingly was all but fired and the Puig caught fire. If ownership had been quicker to pull the trigger would we credit the guy taking his place with pushing the right buttons? The Marlins had a similar run under McKeon years back was that do to him or a team with mostly young players taking a large chunk of the season to find their stride. Before Torre won titles hevwas panned as Clueless Joe. I think rather than great managers elevating a team its easier to spot a bad manager that mangers to get in the way. I have always considered hiring Bobby Valentine on par with throwing gasoline on your head and trying to smoke a cigaratte. Eventually it will go bad fast. Those are the exceptions though. I see 90 percent of them as interchangeable and the way organizations treat the position indicates they feel similar. The most managers in baseball dont make nearly what their counterparts in other sports do. If things arent going well just fire the guy and plug in someone that got fired somewhere else.

Originally Posted by the 'stache

I respectfully disagree. I think a manager can make all the difference. One great example is the 1982 Milwaukee Brewers. Buck Rodgers led the Brewers to a first place finish in the strike shortened 1981 season. But the team started off slowly in 1982 under Rodgers. He got fired at 23-24. Harvey Kuenn, who was a coach, was made manager the rest of the way, and the Brewers went 72-43 with him at the helm.

This was a team with 4 future Hall of Famers (Robin Yount, Paul Molitor, Don Sutton and Rollie Fingers) and another guy I think is a future Hall of Famer, Ted Simmons. It had the 1982 Cy Young Award winner in Pete Vuckovich, the 1981 Cy Young winner and MVP Rollie Fingers, the 1982 MVP in Robin Yount. This team was loaded offensively. It hit 216 home runs. Gorman Thomas hit 39, Ben Oglivie had 34, Cecil Cooper had 32, Robin Yount had 29, Ted Simmons hit 23, Paul Molitor hit 19, Don Money hit 16. Cooper, Yount and Molitor had over 200 hits. Four guys drove in over 100 runs, and Simmons drove in 97. They could flat out hit. The difference between the Brewers being a .500 team, and the American League Champions, was the manager. Kuenn had a completely different coaching style. He was more laid back. He told his players to have fun. The team loosened up, and started playing up to their potential. They added Sutton at the beginning of September, but the Brewers were already 25 games over .500 at 78-53.

In this case, the manager made the difference. The players loved Kuenn, and he knew how to take the controls perfectly. The Brewers could have brought in anybody, and I don't think they're as successful with somebody else. At that place in time, it was a perfect marriage.

[KCRfan1]

I tend to agree with the others that the manager will make little difference, it's the talent on the field that wins the games. The 82 Brewers could hit the ball, however their weakness was the starting rotation. Offense will win games, pitching will win championships. Fingers is a relief pitcher, and most if not all clubs have a very good closer. Pete won 18 games, 3.3 something era, yet after that those starters were rough. I believe Caldwell had an era of 3.9 or so, the other 3 had era's in the 4's with one pushing close to 5. That team was pure offense and carried the Brewers staff.

[HRBAKER]

Good team, their biggest problems were Darrell Porter and Willie McGee in the end.

[CMIZ5290]

My God the Braves suck so bad...Get rid of these two idiots....

[clydepepper]

Braves fired GM Frank Wren today. I am on board with firing of the entire coaching staff with the exception of Pitching Coach Roger McDowell.

I've never been a fan of Terry Pendleton and co-hitting coaches Greg Walker and Scott Fletcher have been unable to get the results justifying their retention.

With a September crash worse than that in 2011, Freddie Gonzales, while being hand-picked by Bobby Cox, does not seem to be able to motivate improvement.

Further, they must find a way to unload B.J. Upton without risking the alienation of his brother Justin or the other young core players.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Braves fired GM Frank Wren today. I am on board with firing of the entire coaching staff with the exception of Pitching Coach Roger McDowell.

I've never been a fan of Terry Pendleton and co-hitting coaches Greg Walker and Scott Fletcher have been unable to get the results justifying their retention.

With a September crash worse than that in 2011, Freddie Gonzales, while being hand-picked by Bobby Cox, does not seem to be able to motivate improvement.

Further, they must find a way to unload B.J. Upton without risking the alienation of his brother Justin or the other young core players.

+1...I agree, this entire coaching staff is a joke. If I were John S., I would actually seek out some of the past Brave players who were great leaders (Murphy, Glavine, Smoltz etc...) They need a complete enema big time...