Honus and his buddies...

[ksabet]

Just to let everyone know, the reverse of the photo in the OP also states similar names to the one Bobby has. I believe it says JA not EJA but then it has Wagner, Byrne, Miller and Cap as well.

So it seems we are certain that Wagner, Byrnes, Miller and Abatticchio are in there which leaves 3 unidentified for certain (Clarke is debatable apparently)

[bobbvc]

Originally Posted by ksabet

Just to let everyone know, the reverse of the photo in the OP also states similar names to the one Bobby has. I believe it says JA not EJA but then it has Wagner, Byrne, Miller and Cap as well.

So it seems we are certain that Wagner, Byrnes, Miller and Abatticchio are in there which leaves 3 unidentified for certain (Clarke is debatable apparently)

I think we all agree that the so called "Clarke" is at least the same guy in both photos, although he does seem to be about 4 or 5 beers deeper in your photo.

[Econteachert205]

I had definitely deluded myself quite proudly into thinking I had id'd the right person. I looked at the parts of the faces that matched and did not notice the parts which didn't . It was really helpful to look at the methods Marlowe shared in the article.

[bobbvc]

Originally Posted by ksabet

Just to let everyone know, the reverse of the photo in the OP also states similar names to the one Bobby has. I believe it says JA not EJA but then it has Wagner, Byrne, Miller and Cap as well.

So it seems we are certain that Wagner, Byrnes, Miller and Abatticchio are in there which leaves 3 unidentified for certain (Clarke is debatable apparently)

KS-Leaving current discussion aside, would love to see a back scan of your photo for personal reference.

[bmarlowe1]

See below.

[bobbvc]

Considering blurry photo, slight scale differences and 5-10 year time leap. Pretty close. Look at (his) left eye and how it comes to point vs. right eye. Can you chart that?

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by bobbvc

Considering blurry photo, slight scale differences and 5-10 year time leap. Pretty close. Look at (his) left eye and how it comes to point vs. right eye. Can you chart that?

Actually I think that scale might have done more to convince me it is Clarke than otherwise but it is really hard to tell.

Considering it is my photo that started it all I am just wondering if whether or not it is Clarke makes the photo any more valuable?

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by bobbvc

Considering blurry photo, slight scale differences and 5-10 year time leap. Pretty close. Look at (his) left eye and how it comes to point vs. right eye. Can you chart that?

On the lower (viewer's) right it's off by more than 1-1.5 inches when scaled up to life size - that's near the limit of human variability for an adult. You aren't likely to find a larger discrepancy between two different adult male humans. Can you imagine your jaw being an inch wider on one side? What it tells you is that they can't possibly be the same person.

10 Years for an adult can't account for that - jaw size is set by late teens. I can do the same comparison with later exemplars of Clarke and it comes out the same.

As for the eyes I have no idea what you are talking about.

[bmarlowe1]

I can do this with one Clarke frontal view after another - they will come up dead on. Why is your guy so far off? Here's Clarke in 1910 on the left.

[bobbvc]

Is it possible the photo quality could be playing a role? The shape of what I guess are called the eye sockets look very similar.

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by bmarlowe1

I can do this with one Clarke frontal view after another - they will come up dead on. Why is your guy so far off? Here's Clarke in 1910 on the left.

I noticed a few other things that to me say it isn't Clarke.
1) The ears on the guy in question don't stick out anywhere close to the way Clarke's do. Granted, you don't get a super clear view of the ears on the unknown guy, but considering how much Clarke's ears stick out, I would expect them to be a little more prominent.

2) Clarke has a pretty significant hook at the tip of his nose. The unknown guy doesn't appear to have any sort of bulge in either photo.

3) Clarke's nose seems to start more narrow and become significantly wider in the middle. The unknown guy's nose appears pretty even from top to bottom.

All that aside, the one thing main point that I learned about facial recognition by watching Mark go through his facial analysis is this. It doesn't matter how many parts of the face do match, if one, and it needs to be only one, part doesn't match, it's not the same person. The exceptions are differences that can be explained by age, illness/surgery/injury, or weight gain.

In this case, the heavier man (unknown person), whom some believe is the off season Clarke, has the narrower jaw line. How could gaining 10-20lbs make his jaw more narrow? It should make it bigger. No?

I don't know who it is, but it isn't Clarke.

Edit: Mark, We were posting at the same time. You beat me to the punch about only needing one difference. Thanks for the education. Mark