Getting the Record Straight Shoeless Joe Jackson Military service

Runscott · #1 09-16-2014, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-illini

While you are correcting things, this is not an N173 Old Judge cabinet, despite what the SGC flip says...

http://www.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-b...l?itemid=77141

Chris Bland

As I said earlier, I'm surprised AH's don't hire someone with broad vintage experience to go over items before publishing.

Econteachert205 · #2 09-16-2014, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

As I said earlier, I'm surprised AH's don't hire someone with broad vintage experience to go over items before publishing.

This is an interesting point. I don't have the requisite knowledge to join but it would be interesting to have a select group of forum members view privately created threads by auction houses here for a charge. Per diem outside consulting on questionable items.

Runscott · #3 09-16-2014, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

This is an interesting point. I don't have the requisite knowledge to join but it would be interesting to have a select group of forum members view privately created threads by auction houses here for a charge. Per diem outside consulting on questionable items.

Dennis, it really only takes one person with broad knowledge (not necessarily 'expert' knowledge), who can sniff a rotten egg. This person smells a rat and passes it on to an expert, who then determines it's not the real deal...or it is. But if such a person were on board, they would have questioned this one, run it by a facial recognition expert like Mark, or a Jackson expert such as BlackBetsy, and they would have saved the AH some embarrassment.

Same for the 'Fleetwood Moses' photo - that one was even more ludicrous.

Another example - 10-12 years ago I acquired a town ball uniform with cap. I sold the set to a guy on ebay, who then consigned the cap only, through a major AH, as a game-used Cleveland Indians or Chicago White Sox cap (I forget which). I ratted them out and they took the item down, but this new job role I've described would have said "Hey, what provenance do you have?" and when there was none that was credible, they could have gone to someone in the vintage uniform collecting area and it wouldn't have taken 3-4 emails for me to end up finding out about it...before the AH embarrassed themselves.

Econteachert205 · #4 09-16-2014, 02:29 PM

I agree but there are a lot of different kind of experts here, like autos jerseys ojs, so the right person isn't always the same person. Part of what makes this place amazing.

the-illini · #5 09-16-2014, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

As I said earlier, I'm surprised AH's don't hire someone with broad vintage experience to go over items before publishing.

This isn't the first time SGC got a cabinet wrong that sold in Huggins and Scott:

http://dec09.hugginsandscott.com/cgi...l?itemid=16455

Chris Bland

Bicem · #6 09-16-2014, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the-illini

This isn't the first time SGC got a cabinet wrong that sold in Huggins and Scott:

http://dec09.hugginsandscott.com/cgi...l?itemid=16455

Chris Bland

They really need to switch over to the more reliable 15 women at a vase party method of photo identification.

Lordstan · #7 09-16-2014, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bicem

They really need to switch over to the more reliable 15 women at a vase party method of photo identification.

Damn, Jeff! Be careful. I almost spit out my beverage when I read that!

Nashvol · #8 09-16-2014, 04:22 PM

Mark, yes, I assume so. I should have said that, sorry.

Skip

jerseygary · #9 09-16-2014, 05:00 PM

I've refrained from saying much on this thread besides to question the SABR "proof" and the whole military career of Jackson. But now after the ear thing, the Fleetwood Walker near miss and an even bigger mis-cue I gotta write something...

That Joe Jackson broadside is a a travesty! Not only does it have the computer quotation marks, but one of the typefaces used is Futura, which was not even cut until Jackson was comfortably retired! (first used in Germany from 1928 or so but not used in the US - let alone a small Southern letterpress printer - until the mid-late 1930's.

I do feature writing for a sports memorabilia auction house and because I am a graphic artist as well, I have been able to put the breaks on a few fakes by knowing my typeface and design history. Luckily many forgers don't know that stuff. In the two years I've worked for this AH, the owner has never hesitated to pull something that I found questionable.

Lordstan · #10 09-16-2014, 05:29 PM

I have to say, that even though the OP still doesn't believe us and thinks it's Jackson, this has been an incredible thread. It clearly shows the depth and breadth of knowledge on this board.
To me, the benefit of these type threads, beside removing or at least correctly identifying items, is the education I get from the many skilled people on the board. Learning how the experts do research is so interesting. For instance, I would've never thought of the history of typeface to be a key to spotting a fake. Now that I think about it, it obviously should be, but I don't think I ever considered it before. Just amazing.
I want thank all of you for being part of the board and hope you all continue for years to come.

blackbetsy · #11 09-17-2014, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerseygary

That Joe Jackson broadside is a a travesty! Not only does it have the computer quotation marks, but one of the typefaces used is Futura, which was not even cut until Jackson was comfortably retired! (first used in Germany from 1928 or so but not used in the US - let alone a small Southern letterpress printer - until the mid-late 1930's.

When I first saw this about 15 to 20 years back, I thought it might be legitimate, then I started researching drug stores named Devine / Devine's. I found one drug store in South Dakota from Joe's outlaw ball days, but that town did not have a Crosley Field. Of course, I thought of the Cincinnati field right off the bat, but never found a Divine's drug store in Cincinnati (I am fairly certainly, MLB and Landis would not have allowed Jackson to play at Crosley in Cincinnati, so I pretty much ruled that out from the get go). Never found another town in the United States with a Divine's drug store, much less one with a Crosley field.....that is when I came to the conclusion, someone was having fun with me, never thought to check the fonts (I too, am putting that little tidbit in my toolbox). In my 33 years of researching Joe, I've had more people come to me with "stuff" they thought was Joe, or belonged to Joe or was used by Joe and they wanted CRAZY money all because of his name. I had a guy try to sell me a mink coat that he said belong to Joe's wife, without any provenance.....just his word that he acquire it from her before she died and he wanted over 100K for it........NUTS!!! They see Shoeless and it turns into $hoele$$ in their minds!!!
On the broadside, the term "vendored" in the "food will be vendored" sentence bothered me when I first read it before doing any research. Prior to this, I had never seen that term used in a 1920's or 30's broadside or any other advertisement for a game with Joe Jackson. Reminds me when Pete Nash go hot and heavy on the Barry Halper Joe Jackson White Sox uniform at the Hall. The obviously undoing in that jersey is that it was made by Spalding and Wilson was the supplier of the Sox uniforms in Joe's day. The only thing was the Sox was sewn on with thread that was not developed until the 1940's. Hey Fakers.....if you're going to go to the trouble to try to fake us out, at least use period material :-)

Mike Nola
Official Historian
Shoeless Joe Jackson Virtual Hall of Fame
http://www.blackbetsy.com

WillowGrove · #12 09-16-2014, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordstan

Damn, Jeff! Be careful. I almost spit out my beverage when I read that!

+1. Great thread.

hcv123 · #13 09-17-2014, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordstan

Damn, Jeff! Be careful. I almost spit out my beverage when I read that!

Why don't we see if a late night show host will do a street poll - at least more random than 15 pottery collecting women. We could develop criteria like if 6 out of 10 agree then it must be true!?

BBSD · #14 09-17-2014, 08:42 PM

I asked my wife who has no clue who Joe is and she immediately said the lips do not match.

EVAJOY91 · #15 09-17-2014, 09:17 PM

I posted this magnificent 1909 world championship pirates photo back in july around the same time i posted the shoeless joe jackson military panoramic photo. I asked net54 members back in july to help me identify both photos. No one at that time paid any attention to the posts. One member comment yesterday said that "every photo i post i see someone famous" i ask that member where was he back in july? If i had the many comments on the joe jackson panoramic photo i wouldn't have consigned to huggins & scott. But again, no comment back then. Well here is another photo i posted back in july that will be auctioned by huggins & scott. Does everyone see the great honus wagner? Let me know what you experts think. I can still pull it even though this exact photo sold at auction in 2007 for $3,000. Thank you as always for any help you can provide. Regards, michael calvello

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